Interview by Brooke Gibbs.

Friends and collaborators River Lane and Leena Regan wrote Human Design together after recognising they were not alone in their shame spirals over past mistakes and missteps. The compassion that each of them had for the other’s story brought attention to the lack of self-compassion they each had for themselves. The creation of this song served as an outlet to release themselves from the prison of rumination that kept them stuck in patterns of pain and to begin their journeys of forgiveness and transformation.

Futuremag Music Editor Brooke Gibbs, sat down with Leena and River for a fun chat about all things human design, perfectionism, and much more!

Watch the full interview below.

FMM: Hi! Thank you so much for joining me. I'm so excited because this morning I've been listening to Human Design and it's such an incredible track and I'm happy that it's out of the world.

Leena: Thanks. Thank you.

FMM: That’s alright. It's been out for a couple of weeks now. How have people been reacting to it? Have you received any feedback or any positive comments?

Leena: Yeah, absolutely. So on my Spotify bio, I have, like.. feel free to DM me if this song, like, if any of my songs resonate with you or anything. I've actually had quite a bit of people reaching out to either myself or to River, just having conversations about just kind of overcoming and letting go of shame that they've been holding on to from something going on in their lives.

Like, for me, perfectionism is a big thing that I have to let go of a little bit, and I think several people have resonated with that. But, I think everybody deals with shame and kind of beating ourselves up for something that we've done. And it's been really amazing to have so many conversations with people about just kind of letting that go, forgiving yourself and moving forward and just like, we're human, we're going to mess up, we're going to do stuff we're not uber proud of sometimes.

But, it's been really nice to come together with even strangers on the Internet and friends and family as well over kind of that common humanity. It's been really cool.

FMM: Yeah, I'm so glad to hear that everyone's come together because that's what music is about, and especially a song like Human Design that has that relatable level of message to it because, yeah, we all make mistakes and that's a part of being human.

Leena: Yeah, unfortunately, yes. It's like our defining characteristic. One of the things that's certain is death, and then another one is that we're going to mess up.

FMM: Yes, it is, and this one is a collaboration between not only two very talented and great artists, but also two friends. We only have one of you here at the moment. So, do you want to maybe introduce yourself as well as River and what you guys do and how this collaboration came to be a part?

Leena: Yeah, absolutely. So, my name is Leena Regan and I am an alternative, pop artist out of originally, I'm from Iowa and then I spent time in Nashville and then nearly a decade in LA. And then through the Pandemic, I found myself out here in Adelaide and to be honest, was coming here just to kind of hopefully wait out the Pandemic. But, then my partner and I had this opportunity to buy this recording studio, which would never.. maybe I shouldn't say never, would be highly unlikely to ever happen for us in Los Angeles.

So, we decided to just go for it and open up a studio here in Adelaide where we work with independent artists on really kind of finding a really honest brand and how to present that to the world, how to really connect more deeply with yourself and with your audience, and also how to just grow in your craft all the time. And one of our, I think our very first cold client of someone that we didn't know at all, that reached out to us through our website, was River. And so we met even before we had this building to a point where people could be inside of it because we had to renovate. So, she would actually come over to my apartment and we'd work on songwriting and vocals and we actually wrote the song together in a coaching session of hers for songwriting.

It ended up being a point where she's like, actually, I think I kind of want to write this together rather than have you coach me in writing it, because we had become friends at that point and so we wrote it together and then afterwards she's like, would you consider doing this as a duet? And absolutely. It was the perfect song to do that for because I have had issues with my perfectionism in the past that have made making music at times no longer fun, because I've been so wrapped up in it needing to do something for my career or it needing to be good and perfect and in those moments, it hasn't been fun. And so I was in this journey of trying to chase things that just sounded fun, and that's it. And having a friend ask me to do a duo with them, that just sounded fun.

And the song is, like, about letting that stuff go. So it was just the perfect, serendipitous little moment of an invite from River to do the song together. And that's how that came about. And she is, I would say, like a cinematic, oceanic singer-songwriter. Se is from the Manham from the Riverlands. She was Manham's first legal busker, which is quite the title to hold. Se just writes music about her life and she has this beautiful, warm tone to her voice that just like, I tell her all the time, I'm cozying up to a fireplace every time I listen to your voice. It's just so nice. So that's her and me and how we came together for this.

FMM: Yeah, thanks so much for sharing. It sounds like it came along, the collaboration, very naturally. And I feel like that when you listen to the track, you can hear that because your vocals and also your individual music experiences complement each other well in this release.

Leena: Yeah, thank you so much for that. Yeah, t was very fun, very serendipitous and very natural, for sure.

FMM: Yes, and I'd love to hear more about your creative process when doing this song because, do you find it harder to work with someone that you know well when it comes to creative ideas or did it just bounce together?

Leena: Well, no, see yeah, that's a great question. Honestly, I find the more that I know someone, the easier it is to collaborate for the most part, because one of the more difficult things as a professional songwriter is getting in the room with a stranger and in four hours feeling like, you know, their deepest, darkest, most vulnerable sides to them in such a short amount of time. Sometimes that can be really difficult to cultivate. Obviously, we're all human beings that have a lot of things going on in our lives and sometimes we don't want to talk about those vulnerable things. When that happens, the song may kind of fall a little flat or maybe a little surface level, but when you already have that kind of relationship with someone that's deeper, you can really just dive straight into the vulnerability rather than having to spend half the session just kind of like trying to break the ice, if you know what I mean? So, that actually is a huge benefit to this song and to any people that I think either one of us work with is the more trust that you have in one another, the more connective the lyrics can be.

FMM: Yeah, that makes total sense. So, where do you hope to go with Human Design? Do you hope to do more videos with it or where do you see it going from where it is now?

Leena: Yeah, that's a great question. We actually were just working on finishing up the editing for our live in studio recording of it and so that will be coming out soon. I don't know the exact date, but we did film us performing just right on the other side of that window there, a live version so that'll be coming out soon and then we also just last week filmed a full fledged music video and so that'll be coming as well. So it's just the beginning of Human Design's lifespan for sure.

FMM: I'm so excited for that, especially the live studio version because I love watching that and getting to see the artists perform the song as well and not just hearing the audio. I love that.

Leena: Yeah, it's so cool. And another really cool thing about that is that River has been learning how to do film and film editing the past year -sh and so she actually filmed it and edited it herself. So that's a really cool element as well. And she was a really big part of the making of the music video as well. That's really cool that she's getting to have that outlet of not just the creative kind of output of the song itself, but also of the visuals that will accompany it. So that's really cool.

FMM: Yeah, and I love that because that means she's got creative control over what's happening. It's a very personal experience and good on her, especially finding the time to do all that as well because that's not an easy role to do.

Leena: Oh, and that girl will learn how to do anything. Every week I learn something new about something she has learned how to do. She just got her scuba license. She used to take harmonica lessons. Like, I didn't even know that was a thing that you could do. She has like a massage therapy license. She has a group fitness license. She's done IT. She's done business. She knows how to do everything. She just is a sponge. And just anything that she thinks sounds fun to learn, she'll just learn it.

FMM: That's incredible. I want to take some of her energy and just like, I don't know, manifest it into me.

Leena: Yes. It's so nice to be around someone like River in my life because anytime that I see something that I don't know how to do and I'm really interested in probably ten years ago, I would have been like, oh, I don't know how to do that. But having people like her in my life, she's one of several who just learn it and it inspires me to just pick stuff up and learn as well. So that's really cool to have in a friend, for sure.

FMM: It sounds like you're both a really good fit for one another. So, it sounds like we can expect more collaborations in the future between you two?

Leena: wherever the wind takes us. I think we're going to have not just collaborations with the two of us, but also with other artists. So our studio here is called Songbird Society and she [River} has been working with some of our artists and us on building some video content for their releases. So we're also kind of starting to work together to help even other artists with their careers. So that's cool too. So lots of different ways to collaborate between the two of us for sure.

FMM: And that's an amazing gift to give someone too; giving them the visuals and the videos. Because when I was looking at her Instagram as well, I was seeing some of the video stuff she does. So knowing that and hearing what you said about the upcoming music video, I'm very excited to see the final product.

Leena: I'm excited too. I don't know if you saw any of the behind-the-scenes footage. It's on both of our Instagrams, but we brought in our friends at Matrix Studio. They have this big photography and videography studio and we brought in a bathtub and filled it with freezing cold water and these very black bath bombs. So if you check out our Instagrams, you'll find that we were in essentially icy water that's just black and then it's just like our faces peeking out. So I'm really stoked to see what it looks like because I was on the other side of the camera. So I have no idea. I'm just as keen as you are.

FMM: Yeah, I saw the bathtub photos and I was like, this looks very interesting.

Leena: Yes, it was a very vulnerable situation to put ourselves in, but it just felt right for the song, so just went for it.

FMM: Yes, and I'll link people to your Instagram as well, but feel free to say your username and just plug it so people can go and have a look and see what we're talking about as well.

Leena: Yeah, absolutely. So my instagram handle is @leenaregan and Rivers’ is @_riverlane_

[River then talked into the room and joined our conversation]

Leena: And we have a River.

River: She's here. Sorry.

FMM: We were just talking about you. All good things. Obviously nothing bad [laughs].

Leena: I've just been, like, essentially gushing about how dope you are.

River: Thank you. Yeah, I've just been in a waterfall.

Leena: Oh, nice.

FMM: Welcome. It's great to have you.

Leena: [Touches River’s arm]. Oh, my gosh, you are cold.

River: Yeah. What are we talking about?

Leena: We were talking about the music video, and she was asking about whether I thought we'd be collaborating in the future, and I was saying yes, and in many different ways, such as you helping us working together on getting visuals for artists and how we just did our music video and all that fun stuff. Yeah. That's where we are.

River: Okay, good.

FMM: Welcome.

River: Thank you.

FMM: It's great to have you here. And now that you're here, I might give you a chance so you can introduce yourself to people as well and your own intake of what Human Design is all about.

River: Oh, beautiful [laughs].

FMM: Not to put you on the spot or anything [laughs].

River: I am River Lane. Name based off the place that I grew up, I have been trying to play every instrument possible. That is my goal. And I think songwriting wasn't really my strong suit. And then I met this one [taps Leena’s shoulder]. She was my songwriting coach, so being able to write a song with her was pretty cool.

Leena: It was cool. It's pretty cool. But you can write a song. But it was fun to write together.

River: It was fun to write, yeah. And it was really cool to relate on similar experiences that we've had as human design.

Leena: Yeah, it was like a nice bonding session, too.

FMM: Yeah, because we're talking before about how natural the whole process was for you guys to record it. And also, I guess, just me listening to it, it sounded very natural as well. So I feel like your skills each complement each other very well.

River: Thank you.

FMM: And what I love about it is that it's such a relatable song about human design and making mistakes that we all do. So I guess when people listen to this, what message do you hope they take away with them?

Leena: The message that I want people to take away from the song is stop beating yourself up over whatever it is that you're beating yourself up about. It could be the fact that you've been holding resentment because of perfectionism. It could be the fact that you said something that you wish you didn't say. It could be that you made a bad choice or a bad decision or whatever. It really doesn't matter. Just stop beating yourself up about it. You're a human being. Nature. As I said earlier, there's two things for certain for humans; death and making mistakes. And so just kind of allowing yourself to realise that and almost celebrate the fact that making mistakes is what makes you human. It's not something that makes you a bad person. And so in that, you can let go of the shame spiral you're going down, stop beating yourself up and just realise this is part of the human experience and just almost kind of be grateful for that. This is such a magical thing. We're like on a floating rock going so fast through space. It's like a miracle we're even here. So let the mistake go.

FMM: Yes. That's such a good take of the world.

River: I actually personally find the song therapeutic. Even now, if I'm like, I need to forgive myself. I'm like, oh, wait, just go listen to past Emma. Tell me what to do. And it's nice.

Leena: Yeah, it's good.

River: Yeah, 100%.

Leena: Get my little incense and my crystals, and I'm like, let it go.

FMM: I love that you say listening to your past self. When you go through, I guess, your own tough days, are you someone that can listen back to your own music, or are you one of those artists that prefer to step back and not revisit work you put out?

River: I go through phases. Sometimes I'm like, oh, this is actually, like, really incredible. I can't believe I did that. And other times, it's like, no, not today, Emma. Not today.

Leena: So relatable. Yeah. And for me, I feel like I also go through phases, too. It can be a little weird to listen to yourself, and it can at times, depending on where you are mentally in your creative journey, it can be difficult in the way of the inner critic being ignited, but then sometimes I think it can have the complete opposite effect. And if you're looking like, for example, I just recorded a couple of new songs last weekend, and so I was listening back to everything I've put out in the past and kind of taking notes of what I thought worked best and what maybe didn't work as well to then apply to this next set of songs. And it's like, oh, kind of like you said, this is dope. It's cool to be like, I did that. I did the thing and put it out there for the world. Like, that's scary. And it goes back and forth between that sensation and then being like, oh, my God, I don't want to hear myself. I'm too critical right now. [Looks at River] I listen to your songs.

River: I love that.

FMM: So there you go. When you don't want to listen to your own songs, you can listen to each other's.

Leena: Yeah, 100%. I have, like, playlists on my Spotify that are just all my friends songs. Very fun.

FMM: What sort of music is on your playlist? What do you listen to when it's not each other's music?

River: I've been really into, like, cinematic stuff lately. I just want to be in a dark room pounding on some still drums thing like that, some toms. There's something about cinematic music that reminds me of nature. I don't know why. Like, it's like this echoey doom doom [makes drum movements]. Like that. Yeah, yeah, the doom doom. And it's just like it feels so epic. It, like, makes you want to, like, take action in your life. Yeah, I kind of use it as, like, a soundtrack to my day to day. Like, even if I'm just driving, I'm just like I'm on a mission then.

Leena: Yeah. No, I love that. I feel like I'm a little bit all over the place. I tend to listen to.. I mainly listen to my friends, to be honest. And outside of that, I am really interested in women-identifying or non-binary artists that are pop but kind of lean. There's something weird about it, like something just a little left off-center that I'm really into. And so a lot of the artists that I'll listen to are either female-identifying or part of the LGBTQIA spectrum. I feel like we've heard. no offense, but I feel like we've heard enough of straight white-male stories that if I have the choice, I choose to not listen to those as much.

FMM: Yeah, I agree. Do you have any women or non-binary artists you recommend that you want to plug and get people to listen to?

Leena: Oh, my God. Where do I begin? Kat Cunning.

River: Oh, Kat Cunning is dope.

Leena: Yes. Vincent. If you've never heard Vincent, stop immediately and go find Vincent. Leland. I just got a picture from somebody that he performed on RuPaul's Drag Races finale tonight.

FMM: Oh, wow.

Leena: So he's great. And then locally, Stu Patterson with The Empty Threats. And he's been working with Avalon Kane. We've been doing some stuff with them. Or they've been working with Avalon Kane. Excuse me. And they've been doing incredible stuff. We're working with an artist who doesn't have any music out, but I like to listen to their stuff because I get the sneak peek. Their name is JC Pride. You can find them online. And then just a billion women. I'm a big fan of supporting other female artists. One of my best friends, Linnie, is incredible. She just released an EP that is stunning called Desert Dream. Casey Cook just released a very poignant EP about her dad's passing and going through the grieving process of that. That is stunning as well. Those are two recent releases that I would definitely encourage people to go check out.

FMM: Yes. You’ve given me a lot of homework to do. Now I'm going to have to go after this and look into all these artists mentioned.

Leena: Yes, do. It so fun.

FMM: I love discovering new music, so I'm keen to go through that list later and have a look.

Leena: Yeah, absolutely. I can even send you, like, a little follow up email with links.

FMM: Yeah, I'm happy for that. That's totally fine. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm really excited for the Human Design music video. What else do you guys… do you guys want to plug anything else that you guys are working on or how can we support you with your music journeys after this? Anything else you’re working on this year?

River: Oh, wait, I do have a song coming out soon. Fearless. Fearless, that I write with her [Leena’s] husband. I'm going to aim for mid-year release on that one. Yeah, keep an eye out.

Leena: So good. And then, let's see. I just recorded two songs this past weekend. I'm about to leave for a month in LA next week, and depending on what happens there, we'll kind of dictate probably when those songs will come out, but we will see. Not before July, because I'll be gone for a while and that'll be my first solo release since 2020. So I'm very excited. There's been a whole journey from the last time that I released music to now of how I mentioned earlier that perfectionism and just trying to find the fun again. And I've definitely found that. And so this next music, I think reflects the energy it was made in really well, and I'm really excited for that. You can follow both of us on Instagram. I think that's where we're both the most active.

FMM: Yes, I'm excited to hear that, especially because it's been a while since you said you've released your own solo music.

Leena: It's been forever. Yeah.

FMM: I was going to ask you, with that perfectionism, how do you know once a song is complete? Because I've got the same issue with perfectionism and I could work on a project and I'm always finding things that can be added to it. So how do you know when to walk away and release?

Leena: Literally Yes. That is such a common question that I get as a coach as well. And you can have your answer to this as well [talking to River], but I think a lot of times, specifically in music, when you start tweaking things, when it's kind of finished-ish like when it could be done, and then you start tweaking things and you're adding things and changing things.

One question to ask yourself is, is this making it better or is it just making it different? And once you've hit a point where all you're doing is making it different and not necessarily better, I think that's a really good barometer to utilise. And then another one is part of that perfectionism is almost staving off the vulnerability of releasing it to the world and allowing for criticism to come in. And so with that, I think, and this is kind of a left off-center answer, but I think the thing that's most helpful is really aligning with, why are you doing the project, what is the end goal and have you served that goal? Is the project in a place where it's serving that goal? And if it is, letting it go and allowing it to just be out in the world. And even if you feel like it could be Tweaked or it could be whatever, you can do a new version of it later. But sometimes when we hold on to things for too long, we actually miss out on being able to connect with people and help people because we're not putting it out there for people to kind of engage with. So, I think learning or kind of reflecting on what is the main purpose? Is this purpose being served? Is it at that point, great, let it go.

FMM: I love that. My takeaway from that is, am I making it better or different? Because yeah, it's a good way to look at it.

Leena: 100%. That's the thing with music or art or anything or writing. You can change it for the rest of your life if you want to. You just have to decide to let it go at some point.

FMM: Yeah, that's very good advice. Yes. Otherwise, we can just take some of River's energy because we were talking before about how you do, like, everything, and I was talking about how I just want to get some of your energy and manifest it into myself so that I've got all that energy.

Leena: Yes.

FMM: [Laughs] Yeah, that's what you missed.

Leena: I was talking about how you have, like, your massage license and your group fitness and your harmonica lessons and your IT. Ugh, this girl.

River: I'm just curious.

FMM: I love it. Where do you get all the time for this?

River: Good question. I just do it. If I think about it too much, I won't do it. I was having this chat earlier. If I have an idea, execute it straight away. Otherwise, if I let it sit, it's never going to happen. And I just don't have expectations of if I'm going to be good at something or what it's going to turn out. Like, if I just do it and whatever happens, happens. I'm not worried about if I fail because I'm like, yeah, I didn't yeah, that's fair. That's like something I need to always be reminding myself it's okay if I suck.

FMM: Thanks for that. Was there any other comments you guys want to add about Human Design or about yourselves as creatives?

Leena: I mean, I think what we're building here at Songbird Society, which we're both a part of, is a community of artists that are supporting one another in making their goals happen and building a team around us so we can all help each other execute all the different things. Being an independent artist, you have to wear, like, 10 billion different hats, and you have to do so many different things and a lot of the artists that we work with also have a secondary passion. Like, we have River, who has the film and videography and the editing, and then we have Avalon, who's really interested in fashion styling. And we have Ollie, who's visual artist. And then we have Flow Phoenix, who does some computer AI. I don't quite know what he does [laughs], to be honest, but he does cool shit and just kind of all coming together with our various strengths and helping each other execute the big dreams. Because you do need a team and you do need a community behind you in order to believe that you can execute something. And so we're really trying to build up that community. So I urge, if any, artists, especially in the Adelaide area, but we also work online, if that is something that sounds like something you'd want to be a part of, hit us up. We are open books, open arms, and are just trying to help to make as many people's dreams happen as humanly possible. So that's kind of the air around here and I think something that we're both excited about.

FMM: Yes. I love that vision. So I'll definitely keep an eye on Songbird Society and the cool things that you guys are doing as well.

Leena: Yeah, we're super stoked.

FMM: Well, thanks so much for your time today. It was really nice hearing more about Human Design and getting to know you both as well.

Leena: Yeah, thank you. It was so great to speak with you, and I hope we stay in contact.