CREATIVE CONVERSATIONS 137: COURTEENERS ON WORKING WITH DMA'S AND THEIR UK ARENA TOUR

Interview by Brooke Gibbs.

Futuremag Music sat down with Courteeners frontman Liam Fray following the release of the band’s seventh studio album, Pink Cactus Cafe to chat all things collaboration in Liam’s role as a co-producer.

FMM: Firstly, huge congratulations on the success of Pink Cactus Cafe because it was a number one album up until this week. How did you celebrate? Because that's a huge achievement.

Liam: Do you know what, Brooke? I have to be the bearer of bad news because we got taken over on the last day, so it's actually number two.

FMM: Yeah, I did see that with Tyler The Creator.

Liam: You know, I wish he biggest stars in the world would stop releasing the same week as us. You know what I mean? But, it was amazing, to be honest. We did a couple of those shows where they link the ticket and the album and almost instantly we could tell from the crowd that it’s a hit and that it’s registering already. It was a fun week. I think those smaller shows are good prep and good warmths for the arenas coming up next, or this week I should say, which has come around quite quickly.

FMM: It's a bummer that it got overtaken by Tyler, though, because his record's great as well, but honestly, I prefer your record.

Liam: Well, thank you very much.

FMM: You've got seven studio albums and some people have labeled this as your best work yet. Do you agree with that statement? And what do you think it is about this album that's better than what you've already put out there?

Liam: I think I would. I would have to agree. I know it might sound a bit of a cliche, but I think most people probably think the latest thing is their best because it's the most recent. It represents where they're at in life, it represents them, it represents the band at that certain time. But in all honesty, I think because I'm getting a bit older, it felt a bit freer and maybe I'm less bothered about what people think these days than maybe I was when I was younger.

And Brooke, the thing is, if you've never been cool on top of the pile, it's quite easy to just kind of do your own thing. We've never had to adhere to the expectations of certain quarters of the media. We've done our own thing, so it's actually quite nice when you kind of do get people saying that it that they feel like it's your best. You know what it feels? It feels like pretty positive and pretty up. And it doesn't feel like we're trying. When I listen to it back, it feels like, oh, yeah, that's who we are now. We're not trying to be something else. It just sounds and feels true and I think if you can do that and then go on tour with a record that feels like who you are at the minute, it's quite a nice position to be in, I think.

FMM: And I think it's great that you're saying that it feels true to you because you guys have had quite a long career, so to still find that spark and enjoyment in what you're doing after all these years is amazing.

Liam: Yeah, I think so. I think sometimes I forget, but it was our 18th birthday as a band a couple of weeks ago. I was like, look if you get to do this for one record, two records, you're blessed. Right? So to be sitting there talking with you about album seven, it is a bit wild. But then at the same time, well, I don't know, again, it does feel natural. Because we’ve never been superstars, never really felt any pressure. We just get on with it. The records, they don't write themselves, obviously, but it's never felt like an actual struggle. Some records have taken longer than others, this being one, but I think it’s worth taking that care. Because we’ve been around for so long, sometimes I think younger bands might be under pressure to follow up with a hit album quite quickly and they can rush it. Luckily, we’re not in that position anymore.

FMM: I think you’re in a great position, especially given your history. You’ve seen all the changes that have occured in the music scene, particularly in terms of streaming platforms and vinyls phasing out and then making a huge comeback.

Liam: Yeah, we came in as like a MySpace band, so we’ve been through everything. We’ve been through the death of MySpace and then all the steaming and stuff. You have to ride those waves. I think if the songs are good enough, hopefully the songs will live on through whatever medium you’ve got.

FMM: A lot of the success from the album can be attributed to you and your role as a co-producer on the tracks, so what does this success mean for you personally?

Liam: The co-producer thing? Like, I was really quite proud of it, to be honest. Because I had been sat next to the producer probably since the third album, so I think since Anna. Our bass player pretty much said I do pretty much co-produce everything, so I was like, okay, well let’s start giving me credit for it then. I think once you start… because I’ve always been more than just writing the lyrics or coming up with a couple of chord, I’ve always wanted to be more involved and I think it’s having that bravery to say you’re gonna do it. It felt quite rewarding to be welcomed in, especially by Joe, who plays bass. He’s done a few tracks and there’s James Skelly from The Coral, so to have them let me sit at the desk with them and make all the decisions and stuff was pretty wild because I respect them so much and what they do. For them to turn around and say you’ve got a seat at the table is really nice actually.

FMM: It’s such an honour to be invited for seats at those tables because they learn a lot from you and you learn a lot from them. It’s a two-way process.

Liam: 100 percent. I think maybe previously I’ve gone into a record thinking this is how I want to do it and this is how it’s going to be, and because of that, you become less precious about certain ideas as well. It’s like someone says, that’s great, or that’s not good. Whereas, in the past you might have been like, what do you mean that’s not good? I wanted that base part to be locked in because there’s a few more voices in the room and you might have an idea about something on the next track. They’re a bit more willing, so the whole process, even though it took a long time, it’s quite fractured because we recorded it in Manchester in Liverpool. We did some of it in this big country house in Wales. We stayed up for a few weeks. There were loads of different sessions with loads of different producers, but I kind of liked that. It was quite scattered and quite all over the place. I quite liked it. When you pull it all together, there is a coherence to it, which I think is quite a surprise, really, considering how we recorded it.

FMM: You've obviously worked with a lot of people for this album and that comes through with the collaborations as well, so I’d love to hear your process of deciding who is the best fit to collaborate with and how you balance your sound with theirs?

Liam: To be honest with with you, they're all just friends. So from that point of view, you know, we're not really part of like the London set or the London scene. So we're not in all the parties and all that. We're up north, so we have our own stuff going on. And so because of that, there's a bit of us and them. It’s not like, ‘Let’s work together because I’m going to get something out here.’ We are just mates. We get on, so it was really natural and everybody that we asked said yes and it turned out pretty well.

I know that I wanted Brooke on Sweet Surrender for track one just because she’s just such a talent. She’s got an amazing voice. We toured with her in the past. Pixie, who is on first name terms… I wasn’t really aware of Pixie’s stuff, to be honest. I’ve heard the name, but I didn’t really know what she was about. I didn’t know a vibe I wanted. I say Etienne vocal, kind of things like profit 90s indie. And when I listened to her stuff, it, was just like, okay, wow, that's perfect. So the guys in the studio had worked with her, so there's a connection. Charlie from Blossoms were good friends with those guys.

He actually came in to do a backing vocal because he's got an amazing voice and he's brilliant at harmonies. And so once he was here, I was like, right, well, now can you do a baseline as well? Yeah, like I said, everybody was just really a friend, so it was all pretty easy.

FMM: I guess it does make it easier if you’re mates because you know each other's music, but you also know each other on that personal level too, as opposed to that whole ‘don’t meet your idol’ philosophy if you had someone on the track that you may have been a fan of previously.

FMM: Yeah, 100%. Because sometimes labels force people together. Sometimes it might work commercially, but that's just not really how we operate, to be honest. It just seems a bit forced. I think I might struggle in that situation. When you're going in to write songs, you're pouring your heart out. It's open and it's honest. If you're forced in a room with someone that you don't know, I’d imagine that being quite awkward. I think so, yeah.

FMM: I may be a bit biased because I'm from Sydney, but my favourite collab is the one you did with DMA's. What was it like working with them and did they bring anything to the table that surprised you?

Liam: Well, I mean, we've been friends for a long time and we've toured together. loads in the UK. We played a load of shows together, and I know what they're about. I love their music, I love their vibe. I was surprised at how quickly we did the song in a day like that. Well, we demoed it in a day. I was in with Johnny and Mason and we just got together in my… In fact, the seat I'm at now was where Johnny was sat, like this at the desk. And then I was behind him on the guitar and Mason was there playing, tinkering with some keys. The song just came about really quickly and then when we had the final product and I said ‘Look, we’ve got to ask Tommy to sing some verses on this. I sent him the lyrics and said he could change any melodies or whatever. He came back and said it was a 10 out of 10. So, I was surprised at how easy it was, to be honest. That was what I surprised at. It's gonna be good live, I think. Obviously, we're going out with them in a couple of days in the UK, so it'll be amazing.

FMM: And especially how fast it happened too. I’m such a perfectionist myself, so I’d find it so hard to not have that urge to constantly retweak it.

Liam: Well, hang on. There might have been some retweaking, but the song came together from like start to finish. Obviously, we may have messed about with some guitar sounds and a little bit of this here and there. You know, we didn't like the most of lyrics. It was super quick, but sometimes that happens, you know, like, Not Nineteen Forever. I wrote, like, 15 minutes at the end of my bed, and then there'll be some album tracks, some deep cuts that take, like, six months. And people are like, oh, that's all right. That took six months, man. What you mean? But that's just the way it goes.

FMM: I’m curious about the album title, Pink Cactus Cafe. It’s very unique and interesting. How did that come about and how does it fit into the message of the album?

Liam: I think it's kind of just escape, really. We have this place in our minds that we can just go to, where I think that, you know, it kind of ties in with the artwork where it's a little bit out of space, a bit surreal, but it could be anything. It could be going for a walk with your dog. Do you know what I mean? It could be turning your phone off. It could be going away for the weekend. It could be drawing for two hours. It could be painting. Everybody's got their own version of a Pink Cactus Cafe, I think. And for me, it was just this place that I could escape to. I think it's really important. Especially, like, today as we speak. It's like you need a bit of time for yourself, but solitude.

FMM: Yeah, I really like that concept. Lastly, I want to touch on the tour. How are you feeling leading up to it and how are you preparing, because as you said, it kicks off this week.

Liam: So we kick off the arena this week, but we've actually been doing these shows for a bit, the smaller ones, but we’re still tinkering with the set list. So we're in rehearsals today, so you wait, you know, we leave things to the last minute, but I like that excitement. The crew were asking us three weeks ago, have you got a set list? I was like, we’re still working on it. So, right up until the last day, we’ll always be working on stuff, but it’s going to be good. It’s going to be such a good night and we’re going to some amazing cities where we’ve already got so many good memories with people.

We've been going there for 20 years in Glasgow, London and whatnot, so to have those people… But then there's a next generation coming through. There's like 15, 16 year olds on the front row, so I can’t wait. It's gonna be great.

FMM: We're looking forward it. Obviously, I can't physically make it, but I'm keen to see some videos and photos online.

Liam: Yeah, thanks so much.

FMM: You guys have been this game for so long, so it’s clear you’re not stopping anytime soon. After the tour, what are your plans for next year?

Liam: At the minute, there's a lot of uncertainty. We know we've got some festivals in the UK, but I've got everything crossed coming to us. Like I said earlier to somebody else, we are so ready. We've been ready for 10 years to come to us, so I think there might be some tapping on the shoulder of our agents and to try and get some stuff sorted out because, you know, it'd be a travesty if we don't get over there soon.

FMM: Do you have any other comments you would like to add?

Liam: No, it feels pretty good. I feel like it's just like that collaboration thing. It just feels like it's almost like we've got another 10 years in us because of this way of working. People out there, don't be scared of working with somebody else because if there's somebody else talented in the room, you're going to get something out of it, so don't be scared of working with other people. It's only an opportunity to learn and grow in your career.