CREATIVE CONVERSATIONS 153: YAGKI ON 'ADULTS,' AND HOW TO RECOGNISE GROOMING IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY
Interview by Brooke Gibbs.
On her new single, YAGKI shares - ‘Adults’ is about an intimate relationship with my ex-uni lecturer just a year after finishing my course. I met him at 17 when I enrolled in a music university, and in only two months, the teacher who once inspired me shattered my admiration through an intense imbalance of power. 'Adults' is about people in the music industry who abuse their power and authority, failing to take responsibility for those who look up to them the most.
Futuremag Music sat down with YAGKI to unpack this more.
FMM: Hi. Well, thanks so much for joining me again. Did you have a gig last night?
YAGKI: I did have a gig last night. I was playing an opening for Portair.
FMM: How'd it go? I saw so many videos and it looked fun!
YAGKI: It was such a good night. I rocked up around soundcheck and my guitarist went outside and was like, there's already a line. I'm like, stop it. So I was in the green room, and I came out and everyone was so, so, so, so, so, so beautiful. And I kind of don't do acoustic sets too often because I yap in between, so it's like really serious, emotional songs, then I'm just like, complete and utter, like, pew, pew, pew between it and a lot of people connected to that. So, yeah, it was good. I had a lot of people come up afterwards. There's one girl who got me to sign a paper. Well, she wanted me to sign her arm originally, but then she said that she was going to get tattooed on her. And I said, if you're serious, do not let me sign your arm because I'm going to mess it up. Let me get a piece of paper. So I don't know if that's going to happen. Then another girl showed me all her duck drawings, so that was really fun, but it was really good.
FMM: I love how you just never know what to expect. Like, you get duck drawings, you get tattoo requests. You just don't know.
YAGKI: 100%. And there was also Portair, it was so beautiful. He had a bunch of free cookies that his Mum had made for the tour, so there was just all of us eating some cookies together, watching the show. It was really nice to be the first one up because I had the whole night just to really connect with everyone.
FMM: Congratulations on releasing your latest single, Adults. Have you had a chance to perform it live at some of your recent gigs?
YAGKI: I have, and I think that last April was the first time I played it because I did an unreleased night and it was when I was just in its demo phase, and it was really well received, so I spent April, the next couple of months developing it further. I've been playing it live at its full form the last few months or two, so I’m excited to have it released. Obviously, the subject line is a conversation starter, so every time I’m about to play it, I chat about it a bit.
FMM: Speaking of the subject line, I wanted to chat about the opening line, ‘I was 17 when you were married and a teacher in my course.’ It’s very raw and striking. When initially thinking about how you wanted to deliver your story, did you always know that would be the first line?
YAGKI: The first lines that I got for this song, for Adults, was actually verse two, which was, ‘I've been losing the memory I once had. I've been hoping this was all in my head.’ When I was writing it, I was kind of like, well, there's no context to what I'm thinking about. I kind of tried to say it in a bunch of different ways, to be honest. I was like, oh, it should be like this, or metaphoric like this. It was when I was with my producer, Yianni, who is one of the most incredible people I've ever met. He kind of just said to me, say it like you've said the story to me, as you've told me, your experience, say it like that. And I was like, I'll just write it, and I'll just say it word for word, exactly what's happened and open the scene like that. Having that first line be, I was 17 while you were married, is so, so important because it sets up and subtly foreshadows what's to come and what I went through with this person.
FMM: Yeah, I think it's so real, especially given you’ve always been so vulnerable and open in your music, whether it’s about mental health or your childhood experiences.
YAGKI: I think last year was a big year for me to really kind of feel… like it sounds a bit sad, but it's like last year was helping me realise that my story does have value. I think for so long I was going, okay, well, the first couple years of my life, I had to shut off, but then I think about it and I'm like, well, all those years impacted who I am now. Those relationships and with this song, with the lecturer, I definitely know that my judgment was flawed, and a lot of my judgment, you know, you create in your developmental years, you develop in the way that you experience the idea of love or even think that you should receive it. The way that I grew up is such a big factor in that now. It's really exciting because this year, especially with this song, I wanted it to be the first one of the year, because I wanted to show to my audience that this is where we're going. I'm gonna give you exactly who I am and what I've been through right here.
FMM: I think it also raises a warning to people to be careful as you’ve mentioned it was someone that you drew a lot of inspiration for, but then that relationship changed, and it impacted the inspiration you once felt this lecturer had on you.
YAGKI: Honestly, it's one of the craziest experiences in terms of my internal battles with it, because I met this person at 17, because we did the audition to get into the university. Then he was my lecturer for three years. He was someone that I trusted and went to for everything that was good, bad, for advice, just to chat, and we would all go to the pub afterwards. There was such a strong form of relationship there already, but always as a student and a teacher. We reconnected the year after I graduated. Me still thinking that this person was married. Me still thinking all these other things about this person. When we reconnected, I was in a really vulnerable space as well for myself. When it happened, I kind of was like, oh, this is like, very much… There's no other way to say it, but my mindset was like, oh, it's for the plot. It's fine. This can't be bad. And then in the two months that it all went on, I can't explain this feeling, but it's kind of like I watched someone that I admired and was, for, you know, not having another word for it, was a hero to me, completely shatter in my eyes and completely destroy and made me question all those years that I had with this person. When I was going through it, there was no song that could connect to that because in my head, I didn't think it was grooming because I went, oh, we're both adults. We're both adults. It can't be, and that's a lot of the conversation that I want to start. It's not because there's a right or wrong. It's because there's a gray area. Because technically there's nothing wrong that's happened, but morally, it's a conversation of, oh, should that really be going on?
FMM: Reflecting back on having that experience at 17 and 22, and being the age you are today when releasing it, has your perspective changed over time?
YAGKI: It definitely does. I struggle to remember things quite a lot, and I think the sooner I write the song for it, the better because it creates this freeze moment in my head. And it goes, okay, this happened because I think what I do, as more time goes past, I justify the other person's actions. I forget about the bad. I forget about the things that weren't good that happened to me. Writing and being able to actually unpack that story helps me self-reflect on myself but also acknowledge that it's okay for me not to want someone around. That did really hurt me that I tried to find a connection with this person, and went it all went down he suggested we could still be friends. I was like, I genuinely can't be your friend.
FMM: It just shows how little responsibility they take. They know their part and they're like, oh, they can still be a friendship here. It's like, well, no, you don't realise what you've done, if you feel like a friendship is a great idea.
YAGKI 100%. Right at the end of it, like, I confronted him, and I said that I thought he was grooming me, and he kind of turned around and was like, oh, but why? And asked for proof. I couldn’t describe it.
FMM: Unfortunately, there is a lot of power imbalance and grooming in the music industry, and without us turning this into a political debate, why do you think there is so much imbalance and power abuse in the industry?
YAGKI I think this isn't the only reason, and this is just only the first thing that comes to my head and there's a bigger chat. It's so hard to get into certain positions in music and certain things, and it's so personal. When you get to a position where people are looking up to you, I feel like there can be… Not necessarily, a power trip. I think that's the wrong way to say it, but it almost like you feel like maybe it's owed to you in a way. I'm saying this purely on the top of my head. Very flawed in the way that I say this, but I think that I say that because this lecturer in particular, it's like they almost felt like they were doing nothing wrong because they had that teacher role. It's like, how could I be doing anything wrong? I'm in a position where I'm a good person. A position doesn't make you a good person. It's the actions in that position that makes you a good person. I think that it's so hard to get into a position that you want in the industry that when you're there, it's almost like, well, I'm good because I'm here, but it’s what you do in that as well.
FMM: It also comes down to his ethics because surely as a teacher he would have an ethical code to not even think about students in that way?
YAGKI: Well, I asked him as well. I put this online, too because it's in the song lyrics as well. I asked him straight out - were you attracted to me as a student? I looked at him dead in the eye and I asked him that, and he looked back and he's like, I have eyes, don't I? And I laugh because it makes me feel sick, and I wrote that in the pre-chorus. The last line of it is, do you see the same girl with the same eyes? Because for me, being very inappropriate to describe this, but, you know, safe space. The pre chorus, which I haven't really spoken about online yet. It's the first time I will. But the whole time that it was happening, he had prescription weed, and I was always getting high at his house when it was happening because I just couldn't do it. I couldn't do anything with him without being in that space. So that pre chorus is about this moment in the shower that we were literally… You know, you can make the picture. He was standing up and I was kneeling, and it was this surreal thing where I was like, are you looking down at me and seeing that girl that you taught? The whole pre chorus describes that because I think that was just such a big moment for me where I was like, oh, this isn't right.
FMM: Thank you for sharing that, especially if you are still in touch with some people you studied with.
YAGKI: I am and there’s a few people that do know the name. I've been asked a lot about it, but I'm not going to say the name of the uni or the. lecturer. People can do their own research. I've had a few people that have tried to go undercover to figure out where I went to uni. I had one girl yesterday at the show, because I spoke about it at the show, and she came up to me and she said she was just starting uni and what I spoke about was the one thing she was scared about with uni. I’ve been thinking about it and it was horrible to hear that’s something that we have to think and fear, but it was also beautiful to be like, this was my experience, this is how I deal with it. She said she felt it was a silly thing to worry about. I said it’s not a silly fear because look what happened to me. It was fine during uni, it was the year after.
FMM: I hate that people go undercover to try and find who it's about or where you went to uni. Just let the song be as it's quite clear what the song's about. It doesn't really matter who it is or where you went. It doesn’t take away from the song’s message.
YAGKI: I think it's interesting. I have a friend from America, and I was talking to her about the song. She said that in America, they would look at that song and he like, huh, standard. There’s a lot about this, but I just haven’t seen too many songs about it in Australia right now because I think a lot happens. I think there’s a lot that does go on, but it’s hard to say it. I still get scared saying stuff. I have a lot of people ask how I get the confidence for it? I think a lot of it is just I’d rather say it than not say it all and just hope that I have people I’m connected to supporting me, like you and everyone I’m really close to. I’ve got to really lean on my support network to know it’s okay to share these stories. At the end of the day, they’re my experiences and the way that I feel should be valid and the way that anyone feels should be valid in terms of being able to express that. It just sits in a very gray area and it's not a right or wrong. It's just a conversation with this song that I really want to start.
I think that if I had something creative when I was going through it, it would have made a really big difference. I think that was the biggest thing for me was the word, grooming. I rejected it for so long. I was like, no, it's not that. It's not that at all. I had a friend who sat me down and just was like, you were in a power dynamic. You trusted him for three years. That was developed in this trust and this idea, and that's why it was so hard when you were there and it shattered this hero you had in your mind. I think for me, Adults is a conversation, but it’s also hoping people in positions of power can at least take responsibility for their own authority. If this person and I were in love and we’re in love for years and everything’s great, I want there to be at least a sense of responsibility.
There’s also a music video for it and I've partnered up with my friend Dylan, who is playing the lecturer. He wanted to be involved because he used to do music and he saw my story, and what he saw was a fun and an artist, but he can’t talk a lot about his experiences because he’s signed to an NDA. I said, well, if you can't speak it, I can, and we can act it. Let's show it. There's a lot of Easter eggs in that music video like a scene from Miller’s Girls which is about a teacher and a student having a romantic relationship.
FMM: Great work to Dylan on his acting. It wouldn’t have been easy playing a groomer when he is someone who cares about you.
I think that there's one scene in it that I really wanted because it's the first music video I've directed. It was so exciting because I was speaking to my videographer, Max and we were mapping it out, and the whole music video is from the start to finish of exactly what happened. He reminded me that I had the director’s cap, which was fun. There was one scene we had to practice a lot where I wanted him to grab me and twirl me towards him. There was just myself, Dylan and Max on set, and we did it in two days and there’s a lot about this music video. I say this, and I’m like, of course there is. The music video opens and it sets up the teacher scene, and by the chorus, there’s a sex scene in the music video. I wanted it to have that shock factor.
FMM: With social media, the music industry has been more accessible now for people to connect. Do you have any advice for people that may struggle to know who are the safe people in the industry and who to be cautious of?
YAGKI: I think this is a really good question because I had very recently a couple of people who I really trusted kind of flip on me. I think it’s about trusting your gut and trusting your intuition with people and giving people the benefit of the doubt, but not letting your own, judgment be sacrificed by that. I think focusing on one-on-one connections is really important. Don’t think you need to talk to someone just because they’re in a certain position. Something happened last month where I kind of had to do that all again. I've been doing this for ages and I still have that happen. You just gotta also not beat yourself up over it when you do realise that someone isn't the best for you, as long as you go in with good intentions, it will be fine.
FMM: Before I move onto the lighter questions, I just wanted to thank you for being so vulnerable in what you have shared. Thank you.
YAGKI: Thank you for giving me the space to chat as well.
FMM: You recently did a one-day world tour. Was this planned, or was it not until you looked at the dates and realised how close they were?
YAGKI: I was looking at the dates. I was sitting at my old job's desk and I was looking at my itinerary and thought I could do that, and then I could do that. That was really it.
FMM: So how did you pull it off? How many Redbulls did you consume?
YAGKI: I don't remember the first three days of that trip. It was the Tuesday and I went to bed on the Monday night and then I was up all-day Tuesday. I got to the venue at 11pm and the gig started at 11am on the Wednesday and I was on at 3am. Because I had support artists, I had people doing it with me who got up and sung early. So then from me singing and then packed down, I was out of the venue by like 5. I've skipped Tuesday night sleep. We've already skipped one night.
FMM: I know the time zone differences is what made it a one-day tour, but realistically, how many dayes was it?
YAGKI: Because I skipped Tuesday night, I was in the country on the Wednesday morning at 5am and then I got to the airport by 8am, which was still Wednesday. Wednesday I flew to New Zealand and it was 4pm. I took a 9pm flight and landed in LA on Wednesday morning, so I technically didn’t even sleep on the plane. I was so hyped up. I was like thinking like, what is this person doing? Why are we here? I was really lucky in New Zealand. I went to a gate terminal to sing and I set up my laptop and I got my little mic so I could record. I didn't know where the gate was going and the gate was going to Colombia and all these really local people from Colombia came and sat there surrounding me. There are a couple of videos where you can see my face looking around wondering what was happening because they all started to come, which was nice. I went straight from the LA airport to the venue. I just walked in and thought anything could happen. I’d never been to America before. I’d never met this person that I'm playing with. I've never met the band, I've never gone to the venue and by myself, we'll just hope for the best. And it was the most beautiful night. I had so many people being like, watch out, watch out, it's LA, and I met the most beautiful people I could ever meet. I performed and I was off stage by their time Wednesday, 9pm and went back to my hotel. Everywhere in LA is like an hour to get to. I packed my stuff, went to the airport to fly out to Mexico, and then I was up all day. Mexico on the Thursday that is now. And then I was riding all day and then Thursday because the time zones I couldn't get to sleep, so I skipped Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday sleep.
I haven't said it online yet, so whoever's watching this or reading this has to read this to hear it first. I'm planning to go back to the U.S. I'm in the midst of trying to get a visa for it, which is fun, so much fun. Me and the girl I was with last year want to do a co-headline tour along California and do a sorority house tour in from June 18 to July 5. We want to do a queer night on July 4th as we really want to create a safe place and that’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to have tattoos and drag queens, and I think that’s the most exiting part of the tour.
FMM: You’ve recently started a new project, Molten Media. I would love to hear about it and how other artists can get involved.
YAGKI: I'm doing freelance PR and social media. I was working at a PR company for a while, and I did PR with two other companies before I became a publicist. Something that I really want to do is have an artist-run artist service sort of setup. So, I'm able to do online pitching, Radio triple j, but also focus on social media and specifically not just ads. I really want to foster relationships with artists where we can dive into who they are and figure out what they want to say. I think that as a musician and as an artist, there's so much music and sometimes the point of difference is people knowing who you are and people knowing your story and your personality and who's the person singing these songs. That's a lot of the focus on multimedia, which it's me, but my YAGKI is way too distinctive. So I was like, I need another name to like as an author has an alias, put that underneath. I've got an Instagram. It's on a private account, but please do follow it. It's just a private account, so it keeps it kind of close knit with everyone rather than the idea of me trying to push it and push it. I just want it to be something that's very word of mouth. It's been exciting. I've got a few artists that are keen to do campaigns, but I want an artist to work with me not because they can't do it themselves, because artists can do it themselves, but because they just want someone else there doing it. That’s the vibe. I think that a big question that I kept getting asked, which was super fair, was like, what is PR? Where does it go? Where does my money go? Where is it? I think a big part of what I’m doing is explaining what I’ll do so you still feel there’s value in it. I want someone to want to invest in me because they believe in how much I want to invest back. I like PR is just something that lacks a lot of empowerment and education. I want artists that I work with to feel like they have a sense of, like, this is who I am. I’m working with a lot of artists now and I’ll say what I think, but if they present their own thoughts, I want that to be the first judgement call we make and to lead with that. I just want to help artists find their confidence to do it themselves, and I’m just there to help facilitate.