CREATIVE CONVERSATIONS 112: WCB ON BEING A FAIRWEATHER LOVER, AND HIS PRODUCTION PROCESS
Interview by Brooke Gibbs.
Singer-songwriter and producer WCB, originally hailing from Auckland, NZ and now based in Sydney's inner-west, releases his new song Fairweather Lover, the first single off his forthcoming album.
Trained in production at Ableton Liveschool, WCB has clearly defined ideas on how to create his unique sound. Futuremag Music Editor Brooke Gibbs caught up with WCB to talk about the production process behind his latest release.
FMM: Thank you so much for joining me today. It's release day, so firstly, happy release day.
WCB: Thank you. Thank you very much. Very exciting.
FMM: How does it feel? How's today been?
WCB: It's been really cool. I mean, it's Friday and I don't normally work Friday. I don't know, I've been on my own, but it's been kind of nice. I just went about my day and did stuff, but everyone's messaging and sharing the song. That's really cool and everyone's really enjoying it, so that makes me really happy.
FMM: Does it feel like it’s your birthday with all these messages?
WCB: I think I've got more messages than I do on my birthday, so what does that say about my friends? (laughs).
FMM: Exactly (laughs). But, it's 06:00 p.m your time. Do you have any big celebrations for tonight for the release?
WCB: It's going to be relatively low key. My manager and one of my friends is coming around. We're going to go out for dinner. Maybe have some Prosecco while the sun's going down, you know, those kind of things. Keep it like relatively low key.
FMM: I love it. Yeah, low key is the best way, I guess. And I think now is the perfect time for you to release this because it's been about like three years since you put some stuff out there on Spotify. So, what have you been up to in that time?
WCB: I mean, obviously we had the old pandemic which kind of put a damper on things. Obviously during that time, you kind of go into a bit of hibernation. As you know, I created the film version of my show Sigil, during that time as well, so I kind of focused on other projects where I could keep music alive without releasing. I did release Fabric during the pandemic, but it was a really difficult time to do those kind of things. I kind of just hibernated and wrote as much as I could and probably drank and ate more than I should.
I've been re-inspired by own music and my older stuff and writing the new stuff. So, I've been sitting on the song for a while now and it's great to let the bird out of the cage.
FMM: Yeah, definitely. I feel like now is the perfect time too, because live shows are returning again, so you can actually go out there and perform these releases to people that are going to listen to you.
WCB: Exactly, which I'm looking forward to doing. It's been great so far, just performing and getting about. It's just nice to have new material to be like, ‘hey, this is what I've been making.’
FMM: Yeah, so it's called Fairweather Lover, which I love because my first impression before hearing the song was that it's a strong title, it's unique. Tell me more about that and what being a fairweather lover looks like to you?
WCB: It came to me… I was actually having an argument with my partner , who you also know. It was nothing really serious, but it kind of got me into this mindset of remembering other past relationships where I've been with people that haven't quite grasped the situation that what they view on stage or what they experience of me in a performative sense, isn't who I am all the time.
It got me thinking and asking my friends about the same kind of things, like people who only enjoy you when you're palatable or malleable or sexy or their version of what they think of you should be. So essentially, they're only enjoying you when you're good and happy and ready to go, ready to be up for anything kind of thing. That's me, like, 0.5 per cent of the time.
It got me thinking about that, and that's kind of where the song grew from. Also, I just asked my friends, I was like, ‘hey, have you experienced this? and literally everybody has a story of a lover or a partner or someone being like that towards them. I was like, ‘this is universal.’
FMM: Yeah, relationships are always a tricky one, but being universal and other people being able to relate to this, what are some things that you did in your relationship to overcome this situation?
WCB: I've been with my partner for a long time, and so in our relationship, the biggest thing is to not let things snowball. For me, when I'm feeling like I’m not being listened to, I'm like, ‘Yo, this is what's happening, and I'm not having a good time, so I would like you to meet me in the middle.’
I think communicating those kind of things when they're happening is more important than stewing over them because I think that just ends up in a resentment place and I mean, you don't want to resent the person that you've chosen to be with.
FMM: Yeah, I think that's good advice because it sounds like a lot of boundaries and collaboration and meeting each other halfway, which is what relationships are a lot of the time.
WCB: 100 per cent. We're two individual people that are choosing to go through life together. Whether the relationship is a long-term one or a short term one, I think having clear boundaries and being able to be like, ‘hey, this is what I'm feeling’ and not being judged for that. That's an immediate red flag for me is if you're in a relationship and then someone is like, ‘oh, you're being emotional about this.’ I'm like, am I? Or are you just not understanding what I'm saying? Or can't handle it?’
If you can't handle that, then, honey, you got another thing coming. You’ve got to take the good and the bad in any situation. It's not always going to be good. There's always going to be bad times that slip up and you got to navigate through that 100 per cent.
FMM: For sure! Going back to the song, I really like the production side. That's what I've always loved about your music. The production is so unique and amazing. Can you walk me through your production process for this particular release?
WCB: Sure. For this one in particular, it's a little bit different because it's kind of not really a ballad, but it's also not a banger. I wanted it to be a bit of a journey that grew as the song progressed. My first starting point was definitely those kind of yawning synths at the very beginning that I focused on. I wanted to create something that almost mimics the concept of when you're lying on the beach and all of a sudden a cloud parts and the sun just streams down onto your face and it's kind of, like, searing. I wanted to create that kind of feeling in an oral way.
So, I created that yawning sound that went underneath everything and it's kind of confronting. But then I felt that with my voice, which is kind of more like mid-range and warm I thought they really gelled well together as a juxtaposition. I wanted to keep the production quite minimal for the most part, purely because I wanted those elements to really speak and then having just a really heavy hitting bass when the chorus came in on top of using, obviously, a lot of vocal layering. Nick Russ who I did the vocal engineering with, there was just so many stems by the end because I was just like, ‘oh, I can hear another harmony. I can hear another harmony.’ So, I think we had a hundred vocal stems more by the end and exporting that was a nightmare.
But, I wanted this choral effect to create a chorus of scorned lovers, but they're all welcoming you in and seducing you. There's a sharp, there's an edge to it.
FMM: I love that because I think that's what makes your music so unique and stand out from the world of talent that we have out there, which is great.
WCB: Thank you.
FMM: That's alright. It sounds like you do a lot of the production yourself, which is great. It's great that you can do the lyrics, you can do the music, the production, but where do you find all the time, because you mentioned before that you also work during the day. How do you have time for all this?
WCB: I don't (laughs). My social life is sacrificed constantly, but I work part-time in the place that I work. I think most musicians these days do. Before the pandemic I was about to be able to just fully earn and write and just work on production, both for myself and other people. I was able to do that, but it just hasn't happened. That's just not the way that the cookie crumbled after, you know, the last few years.
I mean, I think it's also great for me to find something that is part-time that can also not take up too much of my brain space, so that when I do have the time to write and produce, I can really knock it out and be energised to do that. But, as you said, I'm kind of a one-stop shop. I like, write, produce and record most of my stuff. It's normally when it comes to the vocals that I want to work with another producer or a vocal engineer just so I can let go of the track and become an artist, because the production side is the maths and the meat of it. Once I take off that hat, I want to be like, ‘who is WCB? How am I performing this? What's the emotion that I'm giving to it?’ Rather than still thinking about like, ‘oh, I need to mix that a bit better.’
FMM: Do you find it hard to wear the two hats between WCB and producing?
WCB: I kind of enjoy it, to be honest. It's really kind of like a left-brain, right-brain type of thing. It's fun when you hear people really commenting on what you make as a producer and then being like, ‘oh, who produces your track? and I'm like, well, ‘actually, it's me.’
It’s a nice thing to have the complete artistic license to do whatever I want. I love to collaborate as well, but for me, I think learning how to produce and then using that for my own music was a game changer in how I found my own sound.
FMM: Yeah, and I guess that's got its advantages too, because firstly, you don't have to pay someone else to do all your production and it also means you have the final say. Sometimes, if someone else is producing it, there can be disagreements between your ideas and theirs, but it sounds like you've got the final say and what you put out is a true reflection of you.
WCB: Yeah, I mean, the caveat of that is that I could just work something to the bone as well. So, it's also like a real lesson in learning how to stop and to say, ‘this is done now. I need to move on and enjoy it for what it is.’ Otherwise, I'd probably still be working on the first track I've released.
FMM: How do you know when to stop and when you're like, ‘no, I can't play with this track anymore. It's good as it is.’
WCB: Generally, it's when I'm like, ‘okay, I've got it to a point where it sounds really great to me, and then that's when I go into vocal production with whoever I'm working with on that last two sessions and ask, ‘hey, what are you thinking of this mix?’ It's a bouncing idea from there. Obviously, as you said, I get the final say, so if what they're offering as a new set of ears isn't what I'm feeling for the track, then it just doesn't go in.
But it's great, I think towards the end of the process, to share it with other people and get a bit of feedback on, like, ‘hey, how's this feeling to you?’ And ultimately, as you said, it's going to be my call, but I really appreciate hearing from different kind of music listeners what they like about it or what they don't like about it.
That's when I start to show people that, and that's when I make the decision that the baby is ready to be born.
FMM: I can totally understand that, too, because I guess with your own work, you can become so attached to it that sometimes it's hard to step back and ask, ‘what are other people going to think of this?’ because you put your heart and soul into it. It’s good to see it from other people's perspective.
WCB: Absolutely. I think it's very similar to a photographer or a painter, You don't even want to do that last touch but you have to really discipline yourself to be like, ‘it's good.’ You're never going to be perfect. I'm never going to be perfect to me. So, I have to just let go of that idea. Like, work to perfection, but let go of the idea of it.
FMM: It's good that you've got that self awareness, too, that you're never going to achieve that amount of perfection that you want to strive to do.
WCB: I mean, why do you think it's taken me three years to have a song out, talking about the reduction? (laughs).
FMM: (Laughs). I love the accompanying visualiser that you released today too. It’s amazing. Tell me more about that and what message you're hoping that visualiser portrayed?
WCB: With the visualiser I again.. Because for me, I think it's a touch of synesthesia where each song has a texture and a colour, and for me, anyway, and so I kind of work towards that. For this particular visualiser, actually, all the background stuff that's in the visualiser, I actually shot when I was touring in Darwin on my iPhone. Just Spike and I having a couple of beers down at Darwin Ski Club, and the sunset was just coming through, and it was absolutely stunning. We just sat there and time-lapsed, the sun setting on the sea and that colour escape and that moment and that kind of sparseness and there was not much else going on around us. There was barely anyone at the bar. It was like a mid-week type thing. It was so beautiful and I really wanted to incorporate that into the track and into the visualiser.
It also went with the idea of especially the first opening lyrics of the song, that ‘no man is an island except for you.’ I had this concept of someone being on a deserted island and there's almost a mirage on the horizon, and then I was that mirage. I's kind of a bit tongue-in-cheek for me. Why am I letting myself be sexualised by this person? But I'm also a little bit scary. For me, I like to walk that fine line of beautiful, but also kind of a bit scary.
So, yeah, the idea was a mirage and a bit of a fever dream. Like, it's hot, you're on the beach, you haven't got water. You're like, ‘you know, what am I seeing in the distance?’ Then also on the flip side of that, I have this weird fascination with anatomical angels in the Bible because they're kind of terrifying. They have 100 eyes and all these arms and all these wings. And they're not what we kind of have come to know what angels look like. You know, humanoid with, like, wings? It's like a ball of eyes and limbs and wings. Again, kind of beautiful, but also terrifying, so I wanted to incorporate that as well.
FMM: Yeah, I love that because it's not just a song. It's a full experience. It's a story. You've gone all out with this, which is what we love to see.
WCB, Oh, thank you.
FMM: Talking about the spiritual stuff, I’m just noticing, because I love that stuff behind you, too. All those symbols and that sort of stuff. I was just eyeing that off as you were talking.
WCB: It's a hat that I actually made.
FMM: Oh, it's a hat?
WCB: Yeah, it's a hat that I made and the brim has got, like, all these symbols around it. I just made to wear out one night and now I just really love it. I was like, ‘it's going to be artwork on my wall now.’
FMM: It looks great. I love it. Talking about angels and the spiritual stuff, I noticed that you said before that your music, you've described it as a unique spiritual journey. So tell me more about that and what you're trying to do with your music.
WCB: I think of my music as an opportunity to escape. I think of performance or when people come to my performances, as an opportunity to escape and this kind of, I guess, conjuring of energy. It's quite cool watching people come with me on that journey when I'm performing as well. Often people afterwards are like, ‘I don't know what the fuck that was, but I was here for it the whole way through, and that was really exciting and scary, but I was with you.’
I don't know, I guess when I go to gigs, that's what I want to feel. I want to feel inspired. I want to feel challenged. I want to feel excited. So that's kind of where that spirituality comes from and this kind of conjuring of energies has always been my ethos when it comes to anything in my life, when it's creative.
I mean, it should shift the air in the room. It should make you feel a bit different after you've heard it, whether it appeals to people or it doesn't, but I always want someone to feel something, whether it's good or bad.
FMM: I can resonate with that too, because I've seen two of your shows live and again, it's really rare that I can't find the words to describe something, but just like the whole, I guess, environment, I don't know. It didn't feel like a normal concert or gig. It just felt like this weird out of world experience. I think the fact that you're able to do that is a very good skill to have because not many people can do that.
WCB: Well, thank you. I've been on stage since I was very little. So, I think feeling comfortable there and comfortable enough to be vulnerable enough to let people see that energetic energy. That energetic shift of energy is a vulnerable place to exist in. And, I mean, it's quite taxing, but it's also really rewarding. As you said, it's cool to see people experience that and feel that.
FMM: Yeah, it's definitely a gift to be able to give someone that experience.
WCB: Thank you. From me to you.
FMM: I believe this is a track from your upcoming album. Is there an album in the works?
WCB: Yes, there is. I say while I'm like, sitting on a few that are still in demo stages, but I work very well to a deadline so I'm sure it'll be done. I'm working on a record called Moonboy and we're hoping for mid to late this year we're going to have it out. I'm really excited about it. It's the first time that I've done a larger body of work and I think just where my skill set is now and where my confidence with my writing and how weird I want to be, I feel very settled in that place. It's the right time for me to do that.
FMM: Yeah, I love that. And obviously, without giving too much away, what can you tell us about the upcoming album and what we can expect in terms of songs or themes, that sort of stuff?
WCB: I guess sticking with who I am as a person. It's going to be pretty vulnerable in points, but also political, kind of sexual, talking about addiction. I don't know why, but my songs always kind of end up a little bit like bedroom songs, you know what I mean? It's like, I don't know how they end up like that, but it must be something that I'm putting in the water or something. But, yeah, there's a sexiness to it. There's like a kind of bass-heavy energy to it.
I'm really looking forward to showing people more of what I've got and I've got a couple of tracks that are coming out from it as well, so they're in the bank ready to go, which is cool.
FMM: I love that. It sounds like there's a very good mix of themes and it feels like there's going to be a bit of something for everyone, no matter what their experience or taste might be in terms of music and life.
WCB: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, not every song is as long as this particular release, but I kind of wanted to… I don't know.. what's wrong with a four minute song?
FMM: You know, I think music's changed a lot now, because I was listening to this album that came out this morning and there was one track that was a minute long, and now there's some people doing longer songs. I feel like that's just how the listening age is at the moment.
WCB: Yeah, I think it goes to show how much things change and how much they ebb and flow. So really, as an artist, I think your best asset is to stick to who you are and how you want it to be because the minute you start to write music to appease a trend or what's going on stylistically, you kind of start to lose the authenticity of it. Especially being my first album, I just want to be as authentic as brutally possible and then move on from there.
FMM: I love that too, because as you said, with trends, trends can expire, whereas if you're putting yourself out there and the true version of yourself, that's never going to expire.
WCB: Well, that's my thought process anyway. Exactly.
FMM: And I just want to talk about your sound as well, because when I listen to your latest release, you've got that instrumental that starts off with and then you're captivated from that start and right to the end. I listen to my music on Spotify, and I feel like my music taste is so random, so I feel like whatever comes after Fairweather Lover, could be so random and so hard to compete with. You end on this spiritual journey and then you could have some heavy metal thing that pops up next.
WCB: Absolutely, yeah. I guess as I said, if I can take you out of your day for four minutes, then my job is done. I think that's what I love about a really good song. That's what I love about the artists that I listen to, whether it's a minute song or a four-minute song, you should be going somewhere, you should be taken somewhere, you should feel different afterwards. You should be able to hear something new each time you're listening to it and that's my goal. That was my goal with this track especially.
FMM: I feel like you portrayed your goal very well because that's definitely how I felt when I listened to it, and talking about music that takes you places, who are some of your inspirations? What music takes you somewhere?
WCB: I really like artists like Chelsea Wolf. I really love Zola Jesus, Seve Delisa, Serpent With Feet, FKA Twigs.
Most of these artists as well are not afraid to be really weird and again, not go with trends and create something that is completely individual to them. I don't think I sound like any of these artists, but that's what I get from their music. My only goal creatively is to be able to slot in with artists that I believe do that. I want to emulate what their achievement is rather than what their sound is.
FMM: Yeah, I love that because I guess that's what makes you you and that's what's going to make you and those other artists also stand out by just being your true version of yourself.
WCB: Yeah, for sure.
FMM: What's next for you? I know you've got the album coming out, you said you might be releasing some more singles, but are you doing any live shows? How can people come out and see you and support you if they want to see more from you?
WCB: Well, I've got a show coming up on the 24th of February at my home away from home, Low 302. So that's my next show at the moment. I was actually trying to take a bit of a step back from live performance while I'm finishing the the record, but, it just doesn't seem to happen for me. Someone will be like, ‘can you come and play on this?’ Or ‘can you come and do this?’
I love that too, because being on stage is such a gift. It's such a joy, seeing as we haven't been able to do it for such a long time. When you get invited to play somewhere or, you know, venues are looking to book you, it's hard to say no. So, currently I'm booked for the 24th and during that time I'll be recording the title track for the record as well. Busy month, but if you want to come and see me live, 24 February at Low 302.
FMM: Yeah, sounds great. We’ll be there! The songs, that you're performing there, would people hear songs that might be on the album or are you going to stick to what's already been released? What's going to happen on that show?
WCB: Well, I will probably do a mix because I also like when I'm working on songs and I've got them in a demo stage or like a higher than demo stage. I like to play them just to see what the audience responses are just to see how it feels to perform and also helps me when I go into the recording studio to lay down the vocals. It gives me a better idea of energetically, where I'm going because, as I said, it really is a two and fro with me in the audience. I'll definitely be playing new stuff. I'll be playing the track that I released as well and probably some older stuff as well, so keep it a good fresh mix.
FMM: I love it. You can't go wrong when you put a mix like that. You can't go wrong with it at all. So, that’s the end of my questions. Was there anything that you wanted to add or you want people to know about this release, the upcoming album or about you as an artist?
WCB: Yeah. If you like the song, please share it, playlist it and give me a review on triple j Unearthed, because that's what makes us money and make us get further recognition. Follow me on all the socials I'm on all of them as WCB, you'll be able to find me there, but yeah, like, keep following along. I've got more music to come this year. I swear it's not going to be another three years.
FMM: Well, I guess some things are worth the wait, so if this is the music that you're passionate about, maybe it's better than releasing music regularly that you weren't as passionate about.
WCB: Absolutely, but what I've coming up is really exciting and I'm really passionate about these tracks, so I'm looking forward to sharing them with people.
FMM: Yeah, cool. I'm really excited to hear what you've been up to and I'm really keen for this album.