CREATIVE CONVERSATIONS 151: MATT JAMES (MASHD N KUTCHER) ON CREATING A PLATFORM FOR OTHER INDEPENDENT ARTISTS, AND THE PROCESS OF CREATING A FIRST ALBUM

Interview by Brooke Gibbs.

Futuremag Music sat down with Matt James from Mashd N Kutcher to discuss their single release ahead of their first album.

FMM: Across The Tracks has been out for a couple of weeks now. How does it feel to have it out there and what's the reaction been like?

Matt: It's really nice to be able to share it with people. I learned something recently, over the past six months, that a lot of the music that I used to make in the past, I think I was very focused on how other people would receive it before the music came out. I guess what I learned there is that come release day, it would be pretty stressful because I'd be pretty focused on what everyone else thought of the song. With this new music, it's not like that. It's different because now I'm really focused on, you know, if I'm happy with the music first and foremost. The main difference there is that come release day, it's just nice to share it with everyone. I'm not really too stressed about how everyone else receives it. I guess I've come to understand music is subjective and some people will like the songs and some people, it's not their cup of tea and that's totally okay.

FMM: I think that's a great point because while you want people to like your music, you got into this journey in the first place because it's something that you're passionate about and something that you enjoy doing, so you have to please yourself, too.

Matt: And I think that's really important for me to focus on, if I'm happy with the music. I had a friend recently explain to me, the six degrees of separation theory in the sense that with music, there will be other people out there who have similar tastes to me, so it's just a matter of finding them and letting them know that this music exists, really. It's a bit of a find your tribe scenario.

FMM: People definitely connect with your music because I saw you guys in May because I'm in Darwin, so I came and saw you at Bass in the Grass and the crowd you pulled for that was incredible. Your set was so cool, and people were really enjoying it.

Matt: Thank you. Where were you during the set? Were you at the back or the front?

FMM: Definitely the front. I was right up close.

Matt: Nice. That was a really fun set, and I think that was a really cool festival to be a part of. I enjoy festivals that have diverse lineups with different styles and genres of music. That was a great festival because there was Macklemore and there was Northlane and there was electronic acts like us. There was such a wide range for people, so it's cool. Looking out into the crowd, I saw some metalheads and different types of people in the crowd, so that was really cool.

FMM: Yeah, definitely a great mix. With Across The Tracks, you mentioned doing this to make yourself happy, but I think it's really connecting with people because I saw that Richard Wilkinson talked about it on The Today Show, and ARIA Amplified gave it a shout out. It’s getting out there, which is great to see.

Matt: Yeah, that's really nice. And I appreciate it in today's society where social media more often than not means the market is very saturated and it's really challenging for independent artists to get their music heard because there's just so much out there these days. I really appreciate it when media outlets such as yourselves or like you mentioned, there’s ARIA and even media outlets like The Today Show or the fact that they're willing to platform and show independent Australian music. I think it's really important, not just for us, but obviously for all independent Australian musicians. It gives us a voice and it gives us a platform, and I think that's really important, and I think that needs to continue. I'm very grateful that we're part of that.

FMM: Yeah, you've got a good point, especially now that we do have access to the platforms and social media, because it would have been much harder before all this for independent artists to get their music out there.

Matt: Exactly, and that's a longer term goal of mine as well. With this new record, Across The Tracks, it's actually the first release that we're putting out on our own label, which is Mash Machine Records. The idea of Mash Machine Records has been something that we've been thinking about for probably eight to ten years. I've always wanted to be able to have our own record label. And for me, the goal of that long term is to be able to provide a place for other independent Aussie musicians and to be able to have a home to show their music. I see that's exciting to think about the future with Mashd N Kutcher as well, in terms of, I want to be able to share our platforms, like our social media and our Facebook and our Instagram, these are not just for me. These are resources and channels where I want to be able to share that with upcoming independent musicians down the track, too. I've always been mindful of building something for ourselves, but also building something that we can then share with other people as well.

FMM: That's an incredible goal, especially because you've got that firsthand experience yourself of what it's like to be an independent artist. That brings valuable knowledge and skills to anyone that you sign to your record.

Matt: Exactly, and my approach with marketing has always been to build a widespread general audience as big as possible, make as much noise to as many places as I can, and then after creating that platform, then put out the type of music or the type of art and creative projects that we want and then from that greater audience, then the smaller pockets of that will connect with the music.

And so that also ties in with what I mentioned, that sort of bigger picture goal of creating a bigger audience online and a platform for other artists to be able to utilise in the future as well.

FMM: Amazing. Well, keep us updated because we'd love to share that with the artists we work with and help get that out there. I think what' you’re aiming towards is incredible and much needed.

Matt: Absolutely! And for me it came from, you know, when I got into dance music in probably like the early 2000’s, I came into the scene seeing a lot of great labels in Australia who were showcasing Australian music. So for me, I saw labels like Sweat It Out, Ministry of Sound Australia, Vicious and Central Station. These are all record labels that I saw based in Australia showcasing Australian dance music and I always admired the platforms that they created locally and I think that's important.

Australia is only a small market and a small audience and we get a lot of music fed to us from America, Europe and the UK. So to have labels, people and businesses creating those sort of environments for Aussie artists I think is really important. I've always aspired long term to be able to contribute to that. We're still a fair while off that. I think first and foremost I want to release records and get the music out there and I think let that speak for itself and then hopefully over time that will gradually create a platform that we can do something bigger with.

FMM: I love that. You can hear just how passionate you are about it, and I'm really excited to see your goals take off.

Matt: I'm passionate about it because I've been very lucky to have a lot of people support me with music, and so I have come to learn that that's the way and that's what needs to be done.

So, I nearly quoted Dan Andrews there. "That's what must be done. Get On The Beers is still in the brain.

FMM: [Laughs] and rightfully so because that song is so catchy.

Matt: Yeah, it’s funny because while that song is essentially a meme song and a bit of a joke song, I think it still did what any musician would hope a successful song can do, which is to bring people good times, maybe when they're going through hardship or other challenges.

And, you know, at that time, everybody was in a pretty bad situation with COVID and it just did a simple thing which was brought people fun and happiness, and it resonated with people. And, even though that song may not be a super serious song, it still impacted people positively, so that's a good outcome as far as I'm concerned.

FMM: I feel that's common with most of you’re music because your release before this was IT’S ALRIGHT, is such a personal song, but was delivered in a fun way.

Matt: Totally. I want to make fun, uplifting dance music that everyone can get around. It's inclusive for anyone of any age and background. Just fun music that people can enjoy.

FMM: Speaking of fun music, can you tell us what Across The Tracks is about and how it fits into your upcoming album?

Matt: Across The Tracks, I would say it’s a high-energy dance record, but it obviously has some tones of soul, motown and some samples of those genres in the mix. The lyrics and overall message of the track is the idea of making it across the tracks from maybe being in a small town where you came from and making it across the tracks to bigger things. Things like the big city lights, having ambitions and seeing them through. I think that’s the tone of the track, I guess.

FMM: And does that fit into the overall message of the upcoming album as well, or what can we expect from the rest of the tracks?

Matt: The album is, again, all high-energy dance records, but I think the sounds and influences of each of the dance records are a bit of a snapshot of what it was like growing up in Australia in the 90s and 2000s. So, there’s a bit of classic rock in there, there’s a bit of hip hip, there’s a bit of pop, there’s a bit of electronic It’s snapshots of the music that imprinted on me growing up and I’ve thrown that all in the mix as dance records, so there’s a little bit of all that in there.

FMM: Is there any standout artists or albums from that time that imprinted on you?

Matt: Well, yeah, albums is a really interesting point of conversation because, and this is what led me to wanting to put out an album, is that, traditionally, I think a lot of dance producers put out singles. And I think even today, in the landscape of music, singles is mostly what people release. But when I sat there and thought about, okay, what music do I really want to make? I thought about what music was most important to me growing up as a kid, as a teenager, as a young adult. I realised that the common thread with all the music that was really important to me was that it was all in album form. So whether that was homegrown bands like The Living End self-titled or Regurgitated’s Unit, or Powderfinger, or whether it was stuff from overseas like Eminem’s Marshall Mathers LP, or even some of my parents’ records like Pink Floyd’s The Dark Side of The Moon. All of those memories I have of the music that stuck with me, the common thread was they were all albums and I listened to them as a kid from start to finish. I definitely enjoyed certain songs and moments and singles from them, but mostly it was listening to a whole album. So when I thought about that, I was like, right, well, I haven't made an album yet, and it's time to start, so I thought, we better create one, and then I hope to make many more.

FMM: You personally listen to albums from start to finish, so if I were to pick up a Mashd N Kutcher album and listen to it in the same way, taking into consideration you’ve mentioned the album combines a variety of different genres, how do you balance those different influences while still creating a cohesive sound for an album?

Matt: It's a really good question. I think in this case, it was listening to myself and understanding what was important to me. Even though there's different influences and different sounds in there, I think the common element to all of the records on the album is that they are bound together by a mutual love of dance music. While they're all different, they all feel related to each other in one way or another. Does that make sense?

FMM: Yeah, that makes sense, and I think the great thing about having different influences is that no matter what anyone’s personal taste is, there’s something in there for everyone.

Matt: That’s it, and I think for anyone who is new discovering the project, I’m excited to be able to show this music to new ears, but also to anyone that has been a part of the Mashd journey since we started the project in 2012. I think people who listen to this album will sort of understand the Mashed N Kutcher vision we’ve always kind of had from the start, which is to bring together all these different styles and sounds. I think personally, I feel like I’ve always tried to execute that in the last seven or eight years, but this is the first time I feel really satisfied that I’ve been able to do that. I think this is the best I’ve been able to do it so far. I think even someone who might have listened to our music in 2013 could hear this album and go, “Yep, that’s Mashd N Kutcher music.”

FMM: I’m excited for everyone to hear it because as you said, it’s so diverse, so when a new release comes out from you guys, I go into it not knowing what to expect. You can’t really go into it with the assumption it would sound similar the the previous Mashd N Kutcher release. You just don’t know until you actually listen to it.

Matt: And I think that's a double-edged sword, because on one hand, while people like yourself approach it with an open mind, I think sometimes the challenge can be, constantly changing genres with each release can sometimes mean alienating audience. I think if we make a drum and bass record, then people really love and that and become attached to it and then our next release is a house record, maybe those drum and bass heads might not like the house record. I've been aware that that's maybe a bit of a shortcoming that the project has had in the past. Moving forward, I feel like we've really found our feet now and that the influences of the songs can be different. But, I think now the overall tone anesthetic of the records will be very consistent moving forward, so I think that's really going to help.

FMM: What stood out to me is that over your career, you guys have done more than 1500 shows, which seems like a big amount to someone like me, but to you, that's what you're passionate about, so it's probably gone pretty fast. What have been some of your standout moments from all your performances?

Matt: That's a great question. I think overall, I'm just very grateful to have been able to play any shows, let alone that many. I think it's pretty special when you can make music and then be able to go and share that with people. I think there's different highlights along the way. Playing international shows is really special because to be on the other side of the planet and see people from different cultures and different places who connect with what you do all the way over here in Australia is super cool. But then again, also playing homegrown shows is great, too. I think I particularly like playing shows in regional Australia because there's a lot of country towns around Australia with smaller populations who maybe don't get many bands and artists come through, so when we do and all the locals come out and it’s a big deal, you can really see that they appreciate it. Sometimes I think in major cities, people can be spoiled for choice and have a lot of options, whereas in a country town when they don't get much happening, you can definitely tell the vibe in the air is that they really appreciate the show.

FMM: Yeah, and I definitely feel that in Darwin too, because even though we are a city, no one really comes here unless it’s for the Bass in the Grass festival, so when we do have someone, whether it’s an independent artist or a bigger name, everyone goes to it because we are very lucky when we do have shows here.

Matt: Exactly, and I found that playing at Bass in the Grass in Darwin, I spoke to a lot of people and met a lot of people after the show that had come to the different nightclub shows we played in Darwin over the years and you could tell again, like you said, that they really appreciate it. Yeah, I think Darwin’s a great example. And, you know, moving forward, I think I always want to make sure that being an Aussie artist, that we continue to have presence at regional shows in Australia because I think it's important.

FMM: As fans of Australian music, how can we support that? Because I know cost will come into consideration when deciding where you’re going to tour.

Matt: Yeah, I think just keeping the conversations open between artists and bookers and fans and even fans of music. The more that people ask for shows in their local towns and the demand is there, the more that people will come there and the same goes back the other way. I think us as artists and musicians have to keep making the effort to travel to as many places as possible. If that conversation is happening from both sides, I think it'll all keep flowing nicely and it'll keep happening.

FMM: Yeah, I think that's a great point. And my last question is, do you have any upcoming live shows that you want to plug or any other comments you want to share about the upcoming album?

Matt: I'm just very grateful to be able to put the album out and I'm excited to share it with people. Unlike maybe some of the bigger international artists, we personally run all of our own social media and we're very in touch with all of our platforms, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. So we read messages, we reply to messages and we're very in touch with that. I would openly encourage people to actually share with us their experiences with the music. Send us videos, send us messages, give us feedback. I'd like to hear what people think of the songs and wwe as the artists will actually read that. I think we can gauge if people like the songs by how much they stream it, but I'd love to hear people reach out and tell us what they actually think of the songs and there’s heaps more coming.

FMM: I love that you guys manage your own social media, because it’s great to connect to your fans as opposed to artists who may hire a social media manager or a PR person.

Matt: I think it's important and today more than ever, we have the ability to be directly connected to our fans, so we lean into that.

FMM: Well, thank you so much for your time. It was great chatting to you and getting to know you more. I look forward to hearing the album and see what you achieve with the label.

Matt: Thank you very much. I appreciate it and thank you for doing what you do and hopefully we'll see you at another Darwin show soon. I'm sure we'll be up in the next few months at some point.

FMM: Yes, we'll have to get you for Bass next year as well.

Matt: Yeah, it was a lot of fun, was a lot of hope. I like playing the show. It was dope and then seeing a few of the artists, but also, I went and watched the whole Macklemore set, as I'm sure you probably did, too and I felt like I wasn't even in Darwin. I felt like I was in this production and the actual show they put on and the production that the festival put on for that Macklemore show was like world class.

FMM: It was really cool, especially haves Tones and I join him on stage! And the audience reaction. I remember that little kid, Frog, that came up on stage and did some breakdancing. That is still a standout.

Matt: Yeah, I feel like that kid also did that during our set, too, because we filmed our whole set from, multiple cameras and we had one camera behind us, so you're probably in it. We filmed the whole thing and I didn't realise until after the show, because when you're out there playing you’re kind of in the zone and we're just focused on that. But when I watched the show back, I noticed these kids were coming up and breakdancing on the stage for like half the show. I thought that was cool because normally with shows, mostly for safety and stuff, security keep people off stage. But, this time, it was a little bit looser and just loose enough where it was fun, but not too loose where it was out of control. But, I remember that there were people standing on the speakers and there were people dancing on stage. It was just a vibe and I think it was very Darwin and it felt very fun. That was really cool, so we’d definitely love to play it again, for sure.

FMM: Yeah, the openness of your stage was perfect for that, so I went to that stage to see you guys, but also VASSY because she’s great.

Matt: Yeah, I agree. It was a vibe, the whole 360 kind of surround stage concept. People seem to really like it at the moment. It's interesting for us as performers because I’m not used to knowing that there's people behind me, so it's a bit unusual, but the energy at that stage was really cool. I don't know if you noticed, but above us, there was a seven-and-a-half-foot disco ball crocodile, which…

FMM: I didn’t see that! How do you miss a crocodile? A disco ball crocodile?

Matt: It was like, because they told us before the festival there was going to be a crocodile hanging above us. And I was like, what the hell is that about? And I looked up and it's like a life-size crocodile, but with tiny little mirrors, like a mirror ball. And that was hanging above us the entire time. It was super weird, but super cool.

FMM: A very Darwin thing to have up there.

Matt: Yes, very. Yeah.

FMM: Well, thanks so much again for your time and I look forward to seeing what you put out there.

Matt: Thank you. I appreciate it.