CREATIVE CONVERSATIONS 118: DIAL DENIAL ON TOURING WITH SWITCHFOOT AND WORKING WITH SIBLINGS

Interview by Mark Griffin.

Dial Denial are an up-and-coming Pop-Punk outfit from Eora/Sydney. Not even all 18 yet, these boys are young and just revving to take over the Australian heavy scene. They recently opened for Switchfoot in Sydney, which scored them immediate cred with this past-his-prime millennial, and have started to get some airplay on Triple J.

So, I dutifully dusted off my So Fresh of 2003, blasted some Switchfoot and sat down with Dial Denial guitarist and songwriter, Owen Borg, to chat about their new single Overtime.

FMM: First up, congrats on the new single. It’s really cool.

Owen: Thank you very much.

FMM: I feel like 2023 is a big year for Dial Denial. You’ve just opened for Switchfoot, you’ve got a new single out and you’re starting to get some Triple J play

Owen: Yeah, it’s been massive so far. It’s been really incredible, and this year is the year that all of us turn 18, so that means we get to play a lot more gigs than we currently do. But yeah, I just came off the back of Switchfoot last night, so that was amazing. There was roughly 800-900 people in the room when we played, so it was pretty incredible.

FMM: Which venue was that at?

Owen: It was at the Manning bar at the University of Sydney.

FMM: And how did you guys get hooked up with Switchfoot?

Owen: So I was sort of a bit lucky. I do one day a week at Metropolis Touring and they needed someone to open for them, so I put my hand up and we got the job.

FMM: *laughs* Gotta be there to get the gigs. How big of a deal was playing with Switchfoot for you?

Owen: Yeah, so I’ve been listening to Switchfoot for quite a while, just through like family and friends and that. A lot of family and friends, especially when we open for bands, they might not have heard of them, but definitely this time they’re like, oh my goodness, you’re opening for Switchfoot.

FMM: Yeah, sometimes it’s like a Triple J band or something and some people maybe know them, but this was a lot more mainstream.

Owen: Exactly, yeah. Lots of our parents and our parents friends and that are definitely on board with Switchfoot, it was nice.

FMM: And so, what are the plans for the rest of the year with the single launch and moving forward?

Owen: I guess our main goal is just to keep, you know, trying to build our fan base up. Keep trying to get our music out to as many people as we can. Sort of just want to keep working hard, just keep doing what we do, and we love doing what we do. And just bring that enjoyment of music to as many people as we can. We’re definitely heading back into the studio pretty soon. Get some more songs, so that’ll be great. It’s always really good fun heading into the studio.

FMM: How does that process work? Is it all of you guys writing songs together or is one of you the main songwriter?

Owen: So usually I’ll start writing the songs and then I’ll bring a lot of songs to the guys. Usually, I’ll have like a period of two weeks where I’ll probably smash out 30 to 40 songs. Then from there I’ll sort of be like, oh, these ones aren’t so good. Then I’ll only bring maybe let’s say like 10 to 20 to the rest of the band. And from there, they’ll definitely put their spin on it themselves. I’m lucky enough to be a multi-instrumentalist, so I can put drums and bass as well as guitars down. But then you, Gus goes off to write his vocals. Sometimes I have vocal melodies in there as suggestions, but I’m never sort of like, this is what has to be in the track. I let my younger brother, Justin, go forth with the drums and Bailey with his bass parts as well.

FMM: Do you always bring them finished demos, or do you ever come in and just workshop songs in a sort of jam situation?

Owen: Usually demos, like 99% of the time. We’ve found that it just works best for us this way. We’ve tried to sort of jam it out in a room many times and it’s just never really worked for us. I usually try and spend quite a bit of time even though like I smash out a lot of the songs, I'll sometimes just write them all and then go back through them and listen with fresh ears and try and make the demos— I mean, I can never make it sound as good as Stevie does in the studio—but yeah, just to try and you know I don’t want to give them a demo and there’s no bass, or there’s no drums and it’s like, well then I can’t hear an actual final product. Which is what I try and do, so that we can really hear and then really assess what our options are. Sometimes it’s always the case that your demos that you do end up taking to the studio are rarely ever the same anyway when you leave the studio.

FMM: Yeah, sure.

Owen: It’s still good to have a sort of a structure to it, and it makes Stevie’s job easier behind the desk as well.

FMM: And so with a track like, Overtime, just walk me through how long that process takes from when you sat down and you did your 20 or 30 songs, all the way through to releasing it.

Owen: So we recorded, Overtime and our previous single to that, Killara Road, at the same time in about April of 2022. So we released, Killara Road in July and then Overtime last week. So it's quite a fair way from, you know, hitting the studio even to releasing and it is usually not as long as that, but, we just had a few things pop up at the end of last year, which meant we couldn't release Overtime. But we definitely wanted to release early the year to start 2023 off well. But yeah, it's definitely, like a long process, especially with Overtime as well, that was dramatically changed once hit the studio. A lot of like structural integral parts of the song were changed, like the whole feel of it really.

FMM: Is that just because you find different things work in the studio or is it a sort of producer saying like, ‘Hey, this is a better way to do the song?’ How does that happen?

Owen: Yeah, definitely. Stevie was like… I remember lthe first time we playedthe original chorus, he was like, nah, that's not it, that's gotta change. And I was like, okay, like, you know, I've been following Stevie's work for many, many years, like too closely I think—

FMM: —So that's Stevie Knight?

Owen: Knight, yeah. So last time we hit the studio with him in April of 2022 was the first opportunity we had. And I've always been, you know, let the pro, you know, let the professionals do their thing. So, I was super excited to see where he'd take the songs and I think you have to as a band, especially when you have someone of that high calibre, but you have to let them do their thing.

FMM: And how did you get hooked up with him?

Owen: Um, so that was really lucky. We just emailed him, and he got back, it was great.

FMM: So cold calling is the way to go.

Owen: Yeah. But we'd been trying to find like a producer, like we had, previously Andrew Herft who did our Goodnight EP and he was awesome. But we wanted to take it to the next level and yes, he was the guy [Stevie Knight] that we wanted. So I think we tried to email him two or three times previously, hadn't heard back, just tried again like six months later and he responded the next day. And I remember it was funny we were actually out of Sydney at the time and I just had my laptop on a holiday. I was just emailing back and forth, until we got all the dates and everything secured. But yeah, it was really amazing.

FMM: So he's quite a hands-on producer in terms of the actual shaping the songs and that whole process?

Owen: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, he's been in many bands himself, so he is very experienced at that and, I think it's a good thing as an artist to have that other person there. You know, the last thing I suppose you want is just someone to just press the record button.

FMM: And you mentioned you've got siblings in the band as well. So, I guess having someone that's outside of that emotionally, who can say, no, you're right, you're wrong, can be handy sometimes.

Owen: Exactly. Or even just like, here's a completely left field thing that you've never even knew it existed and it's gonna work and it does.

FMM: And what's it like having, just speaking of having siblings in the band? You're not worried you're going to go Gallagher on each other?

Owen: *laughs* So my younger brother is a drummer of the band and I'm a guitarist. Um, It was definitely interesting at first. We definitely got into a few not crazy fights. We were definitely butting heads a bit.

FMM: What’s the age gap?

Owen: So, he's 17 and I'm 19 at the moment. So, it's not too big of a age gap, but he's always been the cheeky little brother, and I've usually been the hothead. So, he would just poke and poke and then I'll crack it. But definitely less these days. I've sort of, as the years have gone by, I definitely learnt to take it a bit more and just relax and sort of have fun. I've always been very, like, I'd suppose like, the super driven one in the band and we're all driven, but just the constant nonstop work, work, work, work. But I think it's good to have a bit of a balance as well. And Justin definitely brings that to the band. He's always making everyone laugh in the band, so that's been really good to learn through as well. And I guess we've all really grown. Actually, in two weeks time it will be five years since we started the band, so, wow.

FMM: How did you guys get together to begin with? Were you all school friends or?

Owen: Yeah, so we’ve got, Justin and my best mate Bailey on bass. And then at the time we would just got paired with the vocalists and we just found a vocalist, that being Gus. And then, a few years down the track, I think the start of 2022, we bought Caleb on as a rhythm guitar He was sort of just like a fan of ours, just lingering around. We never made it public that we wanted to try second guitar, but we were sort of in like a covid period, uh, in 2021 and we were like, we've got a few months. We have no, we only had like one gig at the time. We're like, let's just give it a crack and see what happens. Um, and it turned out really well.

FMM: And now that you're all 18, what are the venues that you're really keen to just hit up straight away?

Owen: So Justin is the last to turn 18 at the end of August. But yeah, there's a lot. It's more just being able to play with the bands that we're starting to meet. Definitely 2022 and even already the start of 2023 has been a huge networking opportunity for us to go and meet these bands that I've been listening to, you know, for the last 2, 3, 4 years, and it's sort of been weird, like even some bands that in the scene that aren't like massive that I’ve idolized. It's been really great to meet them, and start to talk to them as well. But to be able to just go play with our mates really is gonna be amazing. I guess venues wise we've been lucky enough to play Manning Bar, but like Crowbar would be awesome to play.

There’s Oxford Art Factory, and Frankie’s, unfortunately we're too young to be able to play before it closed down. But even some of the bigger venues would be awesome to play. You know, one day the Enmore Theatre, hopefully Qudos, even Stadium Australia, like who knows? We sort of always have that mindset of like, we're, you know, we're obviously starting to gett a little bit of traction now, but we want to keep level-headed and we want to just keep focused. And no matter how big it goes, we still wanna always have that authenticity with our fans and just to keep pushing and working harder and harder.

FMM: Do you find social media is helpful in terms of connection with fans or is it more— I know a lot of people are complaining about having to be on TikTok all the time and promote themselves. Being younger, do you find that that's easier to do than maybe some other bands?

Owen: Yeah, potentially. I mean I really love it to be honest. Like it's a lot of hard work and some days it's stressful and draining, but at the end of the day I love it.

FMM: Where do you have the best connection with fans? Which platform do you find works best for you guys?

Owen: Our two main platforms social media wise would definitely be Instagram and TikTok. I feel like Instagram's great cause we can actually message our fans and they sometimes message us. Whereas TikTok is just posting videos hoping one goes up, I suppose. But yeah, I find Instagram's a good place as well to sort of see what's around band wise, and just meet more people. I love meeting new people, you know, I love meeting fans, yeah, it's a really awesome experience. I think music is sort of a thing that brings everyone together. And I always think, you know, sometimes there potentially is like, you know, competition, you know, there's lots of bands out there and some people take that as a negative. But I take it as a positive. Like there's so many more people to meet, so many things to do, so many bands to play with, and so many people. I think we should all, you know, the Australian scene, especially like in the Australian heavier pop punk metal scene; we should all be rallying each other on or bringing each other up, hopefully, you know, get Australian music out there.

FMM: Yeah, for sure.

And then with your songs, I noticed they're really high energy. ,With that real pop punk feel. What is it that you want fans to take out of your music the most? Do you want them latching onto the lyrics the hardest or just really just getting into those riffs and having a good time, or a bit of both?

Owen: Yeah, definitely a bit of both. I mean, there's some lyrics, uh, in certain songs like for example in Overtime, it's about the rejection of fitting in a box. It's about living in a time where there's, deadlines, panic, and university, colleges, social media… there's so much stuff going on. But Overtime is about slowing down, appreciating the simple things in life and being happy, and joyous and connecting with people.

FMM: That feels like a song that maybe came out of the last few years we've all had where maybe we got forced to do that a little bit. Is that where that's come from?

Owen: Sure. Yeah, I think that definitely plays a part in it. You know, then there's other songs that we've had, about relationship breakups. but I think it's definitely a mixture of both. Like, sometimes we just want people to have a good time.

FMM: So if I come to a show, what can I expect?

Owen: High energy, lots of jumping, we're pretty full on, onstage, um, and we always, always just bring the energy. I think that sort of relates into the crowd as well. Like even yesterday, like 99% of the people. At the Switchfoot gig would've probably never have heard of us, but a lot of people, you know, jumping up and down going crazy, which is what we like and you know, it helps us.

FMM: That's impressive. It's hard to do as an opening band when no one really knows you. So, you've been going for nearly five years now. And I know you said you like to stay grounded, but let's just pretend for a moment it's five years from now, what's the dream? Where are we?

Owen: The dream is definitely to have it as our as our main job. Like we can put all of our effort, all of our time and money into it. I think touring worldwide, you know, definitely, there's still a few of our idols that we'd love to meet and we've met some of them already, which has been awesome.

FMM: Who have you met already and who do you, who's still on the list?

Owen: Still on the list is, Neck Deep, Stand Atlantic. I've met the guitarist from Stand Atlantic, but we'd love to meet the rest of the band. The three main bands influence us mainly are Neck Deep, Stand Atlantic and Yours Truly. We’ve, been lucky enough to meet Yours Truly a few times. It’s been awesome, and you know, for me, especially Stevie was a huge, huge influence and to, meet him and now record with him is still mind blowing to this day. But yeah, I think there's so many bands out there you know. I guess as we hopefully do get bigger and bigger… onto a global scale even, I’ve just been thinking through this the last couple of days. You know, just dreaming about it, I suppose, for sure. Even some random collabs on the biggest artists in the world doing, you know, in pop punk heavy music. The possibilities are endless, really.

FMM: If you had one dream artist to collab with, who would it be?

Owen: Oh my goodness. That’s a great question. There’s so many. I don't know, that's an awesome question. I should really know this. I mean the, the rest of the boys in the band would say Neck Deep. I'd probably say Stand Atlantic. But I think hopefully, as we hopefully, get bigger and bigger, any of the top artists like, you know, how cool would it be to see like some, some of the massive artists, you know, like even like the Weekend or Ed Sheeran doing like rock and pop punk stuff. Like you never know.

FMM: Yeah, I'm trying to imagine Ed Sheeran at a heavy metal show.

Owen: Yeah. I mean, well they like even, you know, Bring the Horizon did you know, their version of Bad Habits? There's a lot of these people are influenced by rock artists, so I think it would be, you know, incredible to see, rock and especially like Australian bands start to blossom. I think we, the Australian scene has started to blossom a lot in the last five years and I hope that we all can continue to bring each other up.

FMM: Yeah, there's been a lot of talk in the last sort of 10 years across the music scene in general and in Australia as well about guitar music being dead. Do you feel like it's really starting to make come back at the moment?

Owen: Yeah, I really do feel it is you know, anything from pop punk, to metal I feel like is starting to make waves worldwide. And I hope that it can continue to grow and grow. I guess that all starts with people in Australia and obviously artists in Australia as well, bringing each other up. But I definitely do think it's, you know, give it f5, 10 years. We can definitely be a worldwide global phenomenon.

FMM: Back in the top 40 charts with some pop punk?

Owen: Yeah, exactly.

FMM: Fantastic. And then just before I let you go, what should we be looking out for from you guys in the next couple of months? Are there any gigs you got coming up? Obviously, you said you're back in the studio.

Owen: So yeah, planning to head back into the studio. We’ve got, nothing announced. We’re still working on a few gigs at the moment, applying for some support slots. We'll see how we go with those.

FMM: Where's the best place to look out for those announcements? Instagram, TikTok?

Owen: Probably Instagram is the best place to look out for those. We try with Facebook, but Facebook could be a bit painful at times…

FMM: I feel like your guys fan base is probably not really on Facebook these days. My Facebook feed is all my Boomer relatives.

Owen: Yes. Our Facebook feed I think’s more like our parents and their friends They don't have Instagram, so at least we can still connect with people, but yeah, I'm sort of finding, the gigs we are playing, like our fan base is pretty wide in range. I mean mostly it's in that like 18 to 24 range, but we've had people younger and people a lot older really get into our music as well. So I think that's something that's pretty exciting for us as well.

FMM: Do you get a few of those, people my age, those millennials that remember the glory days of pop punk from the thousands getting into your shows at the moment?

Owen: Yeah, yeah. I mean even like, and especially at the Switch show yesterday, there was babies there, there were 70 year olds there, there was, you know, everything in between like, fantastic. I think that's something that we're absolutely love having, you know, I think we wanna welcome anyone any age that likes to listen to heavy music and pop punk music.

FMM: Awesome. Well look, we'll keep our eyes peeled on Instagram for the gig announcements and obviously we’re really keen to see what you guys come up with in the studio. Overtime is such a great track. So, thank you so much for your time, man.

Owen: Thank you so much for having me.