CREATIVE CONVERSATIONS 162: ISHAAN ON USING BUSKING TO HONE HIS PERFORMANCE CRAFT

Interview by Brooke Gibbs.

20-year-old Melbourne-based singer-songwriter and busker ISHAN has shared his infectious new single, My Mouth (la la la). Having recently become a staple of ISHAN’s busking sets throughout Melbourne’s CBD, this release has become an instant favourite amongst fans online, gathering a staggering 15 millions views across Instagram and Tiktok.

Futuremag Music sat down with ISHAN to explore his balance for emotive storytelling while also trying to meet social expectations as a young artist.

FMM: This is such an exciting time because you've just put a new single out. How are you feeling?

ISHAN: I'm feeling great. I'm really excited to finally share this song. There's been so many people kind of online who asked me about it since I started posting the busking footage and some live clips, so it's been really nice to share the full thing.

FMM: And it's been great to see that it's gotten such a positive response because I've seen comments on Instagram and TikTok. It feels like everybody is loving what you put out there at the moment.

ISHAN: Yeah, I hope they're enjoying the record. I'm definitely happy with the way it came out.

FMM: Can you tell us a bit about the inspiration behind it and what this song means for you?

ISHAN: Sure, so I wrote it a while ago now, back when I was still sort of doing uni, and it was just after I finished high school, during COVID, so I wasn't really used to socialising. Then, was kind of thrown into uni, where I was just meeting people left and right, and that was great. But, I guess I just felt as I was kind of getting back into the swing of things without COVID and meeting all these people, somehow. I just felt like as I was interacting with all these people and meeting them, I wasn't quite being myself. I'm not sure if that was because maybe it was just a COVID thing. I just wasn't used to chatting to people, and I felt like everybody around me was maybe just so excited to be social, and I was kind of feeling like there's too many people, too much going on. I felt a lot of times that I was maybe putting on a bit of a persona or maybe amping myself up to be be more social than I really wanted to be just because I felt like I needed to fit in with what was happening around me. After a while, I was like, hang on, what's going on? Why am I doing this? If I don't feel like going out to this event tonight, I can just stay home. There's no pressure to do any of that stuff. That's kind of what the song is born out of.

FMM: It's interesting you've mentioned how the song was born because with your social media following now and not wanting to be too social, how do you find that? Do people at uni recognise you now that you're putting out songs?

ISHAN: Well, I've stopped going to uni since I've deferred my course, which has been great. Obviously, all my friends know what I'm doing and are super supportive, which is fantastic. But in terms of being social, I mean, it's a different thing being on social media to being at uni and just really meeting people just seemingly 24/7. 'm not an introvert. I think I'm quite extroverted. It's just that what I was finding in uni was I was just meeting so many new people, and so it's different. When you spend all day at high school, for example, you kind of know everyone, and so you're being social all day. I'm super energetic, so I used to love that, but I think it was just like, every single person I was meeting was a new person. It's like I’ve got to remember all these names, and it was just overwhelming, even for someone who's pretty extroverted. So, I don't find it's an issue on social media, and obviously, it's different. I can have interactions with people here from my room, which is nowhere near as crazy as first semester of uni after we've all been in COVID and everything's just hitting you like a truck.

FMM: Yeah, definitely. That makes sense, then. This song has come at such a good time because last year you released your debut EP, so I'd love to hear more about your process when it comes to songwriting and.

ISHAN: Well, I guess for me, it's all about the stories and the narratives. That's why I love music most of all. If I had to pinpoint it, I just love the storytelling side of it. So, with The Cycle of Codependence, that was just me doing what I do, writing songs. After I'd written these five songs, sort of during being in a relationship and also continuing as that relationship sort of ended, I then looked back at these five songs, and I was like, hang on. If you put them in this particular order, they actually tell this really connected story. That was kind of how I came up with the EP and so, obviously, similarly with My Mouth, kind of born out of my experiences, I I think increasingly, people are going to find that my writing is not necessarily tied to my own life experiences. I want to be the best storyteller I can be, and so there's so much value to be derived from my lived experience. There's also so much value to be derived from everything outside of that. It just happens that with My Mouth, with the EP, these are all tories that really are drawn out of my own life experience. But, I think as time goes on, some of the songs that I'm going to start releasing are still maybe on a deeper level coming from me and sort of my fears or my feelings, but as narratives and as stories are kind of going beyond that.

FMM: You're such a young artist, so it's incredible to see the stories and the work you have put out. As a young artist, how do you balance being true to yourself while also meeting expectations from social media or people that have been in the industry longer than you?

ISHAN: I don't have an answer for that. It's all a bit new and things are getting loud, which is interesting, but I don't know. I guess I'm trying to figure it out as we speak. I'm trying to remind myself, okay, I set out to do this because, like I was saying, I want to tell great stories and I want to write things that I'm really passionate about. People are telling me that they prefer the song this way or that way, or when people in my team are increasingly coming up with suggestions and all my friends now are listening in and everyone, everyone's got an opinion, which is fantastic because it means they care. But when I'm sort of trying to sort my way through that, I think I just gonna keep going back to, okay, at the end of the day, I want to write the best songs, tell the best stories I can tell. If I've done that and I know within myself, then all the other noise, if that's not lining up with what I think the best story is, then I can respect it and I can appreciate and be super grateful for all the input, whether it's from people I know or from people I've never met. But, at the same time, just be comfortable and go, okay, gonna very gently put that to the side and just continue on my path. That's kind of hopefully going to end up with the best story.

FMM: I think that's an incredible outlook to have and it’s certainly going to allow you to put music out there that's true to you as well.

ISHAN: I hope so. We'll find out.

FMM: I love to see that you're still busking. It's good to see that the art of busking hasn't died and that you're still actively out there. How has busking shaped your career as a songwriter?

ISHAN: First of all, I think it's brilliant that busking has kind of been making a resurgence since COVID as a fan as well, as an artist. I think it's great for the city of Melbourne, I guess. You know, busking can be tough. You get people who are drunk and high, and they want to come and sing with you and they want to wreck your stuff, and there’s plenty of horror stories that come with the busking. But, I think in terms of what I've gotten out of it, it's been so great for me just to be able to really hone my performance craft. For me, besides songwriting, performing live is kind of the thing that I think I really do well. To be able to go out and play, whether it's in front of 50 people or six people and a dog who couldn't care less that I was there, but twice, you know, twice on the weekend or three times a week, just kind of repeating and getting better.

Before I started busking, I wasn't doing any looping. So my whole live show now is the live looping thing, and that was developed entirely by busking. Just having that practice allowed me to actually get really good at the whole technical side of pressing the pedals and how to build the whole loop on the spot. There's something really powerful about that ability to repeat the exercise and just get practice and get better. I also think it's been really great for me to kind of go out and take all these original songs that obviously, I think are fantastic, but I have no way of really verifying that. You start playing them for other people and even if maybe the reaction isn't massive, there's something about singing a song for somebody else and thinking about how that makes you feel. Like, when there's another human in the room or not in the room, but, you know, on the street, there's something about that that's really kind of illuminating.

To be able to write a song on the Tuesday and then go and play it for people on Saturday, whether there's 80 people really engaged and loving it, or whether there's six people who couldn't care because, it's a low traffic day that day, there's something about that really just helps me figure out. I'm playing it and there's people and I'm not embarrassed. I'm really enjoying myself. I'm going, wow, this is fantastic. That's something that I always feel like is an important part of my process, is like, okay, I liked it at home, but do I like it when I play it for somebody else? That's what busking has really kind of done for me.

FMM: I love that. It sounds like a great way to try out your new songs without waiting until a proper performance at a gig and then finding out that way that people aren't connecting with it in the way that you hoped they would.

ISHAN: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

FMM: You recently supported Jack Botts on his regional tour, so what was that experience like? What did you learn about yourself in the process?

ISHAN: That was fantastic. Watching Jack and his whole crew play and just watching how they went about, I guess, everything around the shows, that was the big learning for me. Like, you know, we've been talking about busking and getting all this experience playing live. So, in a sense, getting up there and opening these shows, it's not like the crowds were way bigger than I've played for. Obviously, they were incredible and everyone was lovely and the more people I can play for, the better. So in that sense, it was great, but it wasn't like this overwhelming experience, like, the first time that you get up on stage and play. I've kind of done that enough times where a stage is a stage. I kind of know what I'm doing. I can play my songs and it'll be fine. What was totally new was like, okay, this morning we're driving four hours to this town over here, and then the sound check is at 2.30, but the hotel only opens at three. So, you've got to do the sound check, pack back up, go back to the hotel because you want to have a shower because you've been driving all day, then drive back to the gig, play the show, come back and you're falling asleep in a strange hotel. All the stuff kind of around the shows, I'd never done any of that because I've been, really just playing and performing in Melbourne and to hang out with Jack and all the other guys on the tour was great.

FMM: It sounds like really long days, but it's good that you were able to do it with someone like Jack who's a seasoned musician and can give you that experience as well.

ISHAN: Yeah, absolutely.

FMM: Looking ahead for the rest of the year, what are your plans? Do you have any goals or big things you want to achieve this year?

ISHAN: I mean, I have lots that I want to achieve this year, but I guess it's one of those things where if you had told me in January that my audience would have multiplied by ten and I would have just toured with Jack Botts, I would have been like, yeah, rubbish. It's kind of hard to project what's going to happen because these things kind of tend to be stagnant, stagnant, stagnant, and then move really fast. So I guess to be more general, I want to keep playing for as many people as I can. I want to release as much music as I can. I have so many songs that I've written that I'd love to just record and release. Obviously, as a sort of independent younger artist, coming up with the money to go into the studio and record these songs is not necessarily trivial, but to be able to continue doing that as much as possible is definitely a big goal. I've released one song this year and hopefully I can put out at least another five by the end of the year. That would be the goal. Then, you know, whether it's supporting more tours or I'm playing a show in May, which is my own headline show at The Workers Club, which would be fantastic. And, you know, just whatever it is, just playing for more people is definitely a goal of mine. But I guess from a more practical perspective, I'm definitely just going to just focus on, like, okay, today, what am I doing? Okay, I'm going to write some songs. I'm going to respond to some people on social media, work hard and, and sleep well. That's kind of where my focus will be, because I feel like there's so much going on and it's just so hard to predict, what's going to happen next month, next week, even so.

FMM: That's great, because it sounds like you've got a great year ahead, and we're very excited to see what you get up to and listen to other music that you put out there as well.

ISHAN: Yeah, I'm really excited for whatever happens.

FMM: Yes, and it's good that it's unpredictable, too, because sometimes it can be easier to plan, because sometimes you plan something and it doesn't go the way you’d hope, but if it's unpredictable, then, it is what it is and some great things come out of it.

ISHAN: Yeah. I mean, to be honest, just as a person, without even talking about music, I really like making plans and having a structure and being a bit more rigid. The more time I spend in the music industry, the more I realise that just doesn't fly. I've got to try hard not to plan too many things because I make a plan on Monday, and by Wednesday it's out the window. That's definitely something I'm going to be working on. Exactly. Yeah. And thank you.

FMM: You've got such a diverse cultural background, which is very interesting. How has this shaped your music?

ISHAN: So, first of all, I speak Swiss German, not like a native. I'm not fluent, but my Swiss German is pretty good. I can chat to the family, I could get around, and it's hard to put my finger on exactly what that kind of thing does. But, I think there is something about speaking a second language in your brain that kind of maybe changes certain things. A lot of people talk about how people who speak different languages, view the world slightly differently, so I think that's probably doing something positive somehow. But then I think just more generally, growing up hearing different languages and being surrounded by different cultures and being exposed to a bit more diversity than maybe is commonplace in Australia. Like, go over to grandma's house for dinner and we're having Indian food, and then next week, the family from Switzerland is coming over and hanging out with us. The family is quite the melting pot. I guess that kind of opened your mind a little bit. I guess I'm quite conscious of the fact that I'm quite often an outsider, and that's not even strictly a cultural or racial thing. That's, you know, just like, as a person, that just happens to be how I am as well. But, I think that there's something about being exposed to that kind of diversity that kind of changes your perspective around the diversity you might see in others. When I see someone who's very different to myself, it's much easier, I imagine, to go, okay, well, it's not that they're different. It's that we're all kind of different. Like, you know, it's not that they're different because I have all these things about myself that are really different and don't match up to the people I recognise. So, it's much less jarring, in a sense, than I imagine it might be if you're sort of growing up in a way where everything's kind of more similar.

FMM: Yeah, thanks for sharing that. It’s interesting when you see so many different cultures come together to create music that's universal.

ISHAN: I mean, you know, I'm sort of sitting here floundering, like, it's definitely hard for me to sort of pinpoint the exact impact, but, yeah, I think there's a lot to be said for. I mean, obviously there's a lot to be said for diversity, but certainly the impact on art can't be understated.

FMM: Of course! Well, thank you so much for joining me, and we look forward to hearing else you put out there.