CREATIVE CONVERSATIONS 120: THE MONEY WAR ON PERFECTIONISM, COLLABORATING WITH FEELDS, AND WORKING AS A FAMILY

Interview by Brooke Gibbs.

Following The Money War's late 2022 release, Somebody Loves You, which premiered on Double J mornings, they have pieced together a track laced with upbeat melodies, soothing tones and lavish production.

With the familiar indie-folk stylings from The Money War, the dreamy elements of FEELDS seep through Was It Ever Really Anything? to create a laid-back and inspiring track.

Futuremag Music’s Brooke Gibbs caught up with The Money War’s Dylan, to discuss the collaboration and what it’s like working with your spouse!

FMM: Huge congratulations on your latest release that came out last week. How does it feel to have it out there?

Dylan: Yeah, really good. Thank you, by the way. It's kind of weird every time, because the song was written, like, at least a few months ago. By the time it comes out, I've kind of forgotten the way that it sounds, you know, all those things. I try and make an effort not to listen once songs are done because I have a bit of a strange relationship with perfectionism and wanting to change things after the fact. So for me, the easiest thing is to just not touch it. So yeah, when it came out, I listened to the song and I was pleasantly surprised that I liked it and I didn't want to change anything. Yeah, it's been good.

FMM: Yeah, that's good. And with the whole perfectionism, how do you know when a song is ready to just be let go and it's like, no, I'm not going to work on this anymore. It's ready.

Dylan: Yeah. It's really hard to know. I think there has to be somewhere along the way where I have, like, a bit of a gut feeling in my body, something that's a bit more visceral rather than, like, rational, where I feel like, oh, wow, this feels like something that resonates with me. And then it's kind of like, okay, this feels done. I guess that's the moment. I've definitely been guilty of redoing things and then redoing things and then going back to one prior because it just had a better feeling or whatever. It's a weird thing.

I think also, just having a deadline can help, saying when things are done, putting the deadlines on yourself, like, even if it's just like, okay, I need to finish this in two weeks, and that's all there is to it for those reasons, because there is no such thing as done. It's just your perspective at that moment in time, I think.

FMM: Yeah. I guess that's why people later on do remixes and add ons, too, because I guess the longer it's been out there and obviously the more attraction it gets, people are coming back and revisiting that same work as well.

Dylan: Yeah. And I've heard of people like Kanye re-uploading different mixes of songs and lectures, but if I’m just substituting it, it's a whole other.. like that's kind of Pandora's Box to me because there's definitely times in the past where I've been like, I wish I could have mixed this slightly differently or whatever. But, yeah, I think now I'm of the opinion that it's important just to kind of say this was this moment in time. Yes, I'd probably do it differently if we did it again, but would that be better or worse? I'm not sure, but it wouldn't represent what we were like at that moment. So I kind of just try and have the discipline to be like, cool stunt’s out in the world. Yeah, it's not that big deal. It's just the song.

FMM: Well, that makes sense, and it's out there in the world. It seems like the reaction has been really good. I've seen it's been added to some really cool Spotify playlists, people are listening to it. How's the reaction been like so far?

Dylan: Yeah, great. Really good. It's always kind of hard to gauge on the other side, but it seems like people really like it. The whole thing was a strange process. It was a song that we wrote with Feelds. His name is James, who's in Melbourne, and it was the first time we'd ever written together. It all just happened really quickly. All the vocals and pretty much everything that we put down was just like the first pass.

We kind of thought it was a work in progress and we'd come back to it and then yeah, we did continue working on it when I got back to Perth. But the majority of it was there from those initial moments.

I think that this is my theory now. I think that freshness might attribute to why, if people like it, if they can feel some spontaneity and some genuine creativity that's happening there, we didn't have the opportunity to overthink this one. So, yeah, maybe it has a feeling of just being free or something like that.

FMM: Yeah, and I guess people also like it because it's relatable. So the song follows the story of a situation that has come to an end and I guess people go through that, whether it's relationships, school, careers, things do come to an end. Was there something in particular for you that inspired this song?

Dylan: Yeah, so I'll try and explain without going too much into other people's personal lives. James, the other person, I wrote with, he's FEELDS. He and his girlfriend had just broken up, like, the day before or something like that. And the writing session was actually meant to be with him and his girlfriend. So the whole thing was at this precedent of being like, it was a bit of a weird kind of vibe, like, not because of James or anything, but just we're both like, oh, should we do the session or not?

And yeah, so first, I think from James's point of view, it was very much about the breakup with his girlfriend and Carmen and I.. Carmen's, the other half of The Money War, who's also my wife. Obviously, being married and being in a band has its challenges, and there's a bit of that in there as well. So James and I could kind of relate on that issue. That was the first thing we talked about when we got together, and then that song kind of emerged. So it is relationship based, but from two different people's perspective.

FMM: I like that those two different perspectives come together into the one song as well. I really love the production side of it. So I'd love to know more about your creative process with him when it came to the production as well.

Dylan: Yeah, so James played a lot of it, like, at least, like the initial stuff. He was kind of, like, running the computer and I was kind of, like, maybe throwing out melodies and stuff like that. It started with this particular song, started with some drum samples and then I think we had some chords and then it's kind of laid it up from there.

I think the kind of bands we're referencing sound like live bands and it's kind of funny that, we built it in a very not organic way. We laid everything up a lot. Like, there was bands like the band called The Band, and there's newer bands like Whitney that are kind of referencing a lot of that feel.

But yeah, then it was like we kind of sent it back and forth because James who is in Melbourne, was in Perth and just added bits and pieces. And then I kind of had an idea to add, like, a female vocal in the second verse that wasn't there initially. I sent the song to Carmen and she was, like, really liked it. And she was like, I've got an idea, like, what the perspective should be from the female point of view straight away.

It was just it was such a cool process. It was just one of those ones that was like it just built and flowed so organically, which is not always the case. Actually, I find that quite rare. So it was enjoyable that it was easy.

FMM: And I love that because when you listen to it, it sounds like it's come together really naturally too. Because when I first listened to it, I was vibing along, like this actually sounds really sick. I love it. It's great.

Dylan: Awesome. Yeah. I'm really glad that it feels just does it feel kind of I hate saying effortless, but to me it kind of feels like it's not too thought out. And I think that's because the process happens so quickly.

FMM: Yeah. To me, it just sounds natural because you hear some other songs and you listen to the production, it sounds like there's just random bits chucked everywhere. But when you listen to this particular release, not so much effortless, but it sounds like strategically planned. It's like, this was natural and it worked out for the better, if that makes sense.

Dylan: I do know what you mean. It was very song-focused. Like, the chords and melody and lyrics. We worked.. that was what we had. And then we kind of built it up from there. So I think the production, once we had the vibe, everything else was kind of secondary to the song. Like, it was always all serving the song. I think we weren't leaning too hard on, lots of bells and whistles in it to try and get it aligned, because we knew we had a strong melody and a lyrical idea and stuff like that.

FMM: Yeah, and sometimes simple is best, too, because then it also showcases the lyrics and also what the song is about as well.

Dylan: Totally, yeah. I love simple production. There's so many examples of songs that kind of were ruined, like, great songs that were ruined from being overproduced, so I'm always wary of that.

FMM: Yes, I agree, there's been songs where the lyrics are really strong, but then it takes away the message when there's just like over-the-top production or production that just doesn't fit the melody or the the mood of the song, the lyrics.

Dylan: That's right, yeah. I feel like the the 80s worse, was really guilty for that because it was like everyone was obsessed with big drums and lots of reverb, and if you have this intimate feeling, melody and lyric and chord progression and harmony. For me, Bruce Springsteen was like that at first. I couldn't get into Bruce because I feel like when you're younger, maybe you hear the initial.. Well, I did. I heard the surface level of what songs were, like the sound, and it felt like an era that felt like my mum's time or something that wasn't cool.

And once I dug deeper beyond the production level, it was like, Bruce Springsteen songs are incredible and obviously now, I love Bruce Springsteen. But, yeah, that was an example of where I felt like the production was a barrier for me and I couldn't get into the songs because of the 80s drops, for example.

FMM: Well, I think you've nailed it. I think with this particular release as well, it's a perfect balance. And I feel like you've nailed the production, while also highlighting what the song is about and the vocals and everything else that goes on in the song as well.

Dylan: Thanks.

FMM: That's alright! And I'd love to hear more about The Money War as well. So, for anyone that doesn't know you and is just coming across the music now, how would you describe your project and what your music is all about?

Dylan: Yeah, so The Money War is my wife Carmen and I's project. We launched it was a little while ago now, I think, 2016, and it's really just it was a project for us to put out songs that we were writing. We were both playing in different bands at the time, and I produce for other people as well. So it's kind of just a project for us to do whatever we want and write songs that we like.

We kind of are very aware that our style of music might not be in step with what's going on at any given time, but doesn't really matter to us. It's an important outlet to us and I'd say our songs are always very traditional in the sense that we're focusing on the chords and lyrics and melodies and stuff.

And then yeah, the production is kind of secondary. I guess, to try and talk about references and other parallels that other people have drawn, I guess there's a lot of eras from the past which people reference which I think naturally comes through, because a lot of our favourite music is from the so called golden era.

FMM: Yeah. And I love your name as well. Tell me more about why you chose the name The Money War, for this project.

Dylan: Because we couldn't find any other names [laughs]. Band names are really hard. It's easy writing songs, but plenty of band names…

FMM: But yeah, original ones. Because of how many bands are out there, every time you’ve got an idea, it might possibly already be taken.

Dylan: There's only so many words that exist unless you're putting numbers and items in your name. The Money War was I guess, it's like there's an ethos, maybe in our music or in the spirit that we would like to have that's not about materialism. And that was kind of like the Money War was like the way that we felt about art.

Like it was hard to be okay with money and make art. And the life is kind of like.. just so many of our decisions and people's decisions generally are based around money. It kind of felt, like, inappropriate, but kind of all at the same time, like a blank canvas. Like the money was kind of broad. But, yeah, mainly the reason was that band names had to come up with it and that one seemed okay, so we stuck with that.

FMM: It's unique and I guess it flows and I guess it can be a war at times. I mean, money causes a lot of the problems that people go through in this world at the moment.

Dylan: Yeah, you said it really well. I should remember that.

FMM: [Laughs] Yes. You said, your music partner is also your romantic partner. How do you go about finding that balance when it comes to personal and music stuff? Do you find your ideas clashed a bit or does it work better because you know each other on a personal level?

Dylan: A bit of both. Like now, having some experience writing with other people I can kind of see the pros and cons of writing with someone that you know really well. I think the thing with us is so we also have kids and we have to be sure that our personal relationship comes first before the band. Maybe sometimes there's been some opportunities missed because of that.

But overall, it's what we need to do to, kind of manage both worlds but creatively, good. I think, because Carmen, the way that she approaches things is a little different to me. Like, she's just like it's either working or it's not or like it comes across well or it doesn't, or you could clear this part up, or she's very good at saying things really directly, whereas I might spend ages on something that doesn't really change the outcome that much.

I feel like our skills are kind of opposite and balanced in some ways. But, yeah, there's definitely the other part, I guess that's great, is, like, traveling together, being on tour is easy. We, like, came out and we've been able to do some cool stuff, like whilst traveling with the band, do some kind of more touristy holiday stuff that we want to do on a personal level and use the band as an excuse to do that, which has been great.

But, yeah, then there are some challenges with just, like, being cautious about you've got to go home and be with this person and have a family with this person. You sometimes got to temper some of your opinions and stuff like that. But, yeah, it's cool. Overall, it's a really cool thing.

I think it's a way of us… kind of it's like a conversation that we have that's different to just a general conversation. It's like our subconscious dealing with issues that we have. And then it's like, oh, the song comes out and it comes to you and you don't really know what it's about. And then you talk about it and it's like, oh, we should probably have a conversation with words about this issue that I didn't know was an issue. Does that make sense?

FMM: It does. I guess with music, too, even people that write that aren't working with their romantic partner, it's still like, things come up in music that you didn't know you're experiencing until it's actually unintentionally ended up in a song or the lyrics are there and you're like, hey, what is this actually about? What am I feeling to write this?

Dylan: That's it. I guess it's the same as, like, journaling or something or any kind of creative flow. Like, sometimes you're just doing stuff and it's like, oh, yeah, this has been simmering down there, but been unacknowledged, and here it is, and now we've got to talk about it. So it can be kind of like therapy in a way, but it can also be quite confronting and can be limiting because you're like, do we really need to go there? Do we really want to go there for the harmony in the short term.

FMM: It sounds like it can be be challenging, but it also sounds like you both understand your boundaries and have a good grasp on it. And obviously the final product, from what I listen to, it's great. So it sounds like you can work really great and still have that personal connection outside of that as well.

Dylan: Thanks so much.

FMM: That’s alright, no worries. What's your end goal for The Money War? What do you guys hope to achieve? What mark do you hope to leave in the music industry?

Dylan: Yes, I think our ambitions are not huge as far as career wise, to be honest. It's really just about making better songs and continuing to have that outlet and keep that kind of, like it sounds cliche, but kind of pure. And just like, I write for other people and produce for other bands and that's kind of the place where I feel like I have a bit more ambition in the game or something.

But the Money War, it's like it just kind of happens when it feels good and we kind of want to keep it that way. We've been really fortunate to do a fair bit of travel with the band and touring nationally and overseas. I guess the ambition is to get better as artists, really.

FMM: Yeah, I guess just have fun with it and see where it goes.

Dylan: Yeah, totally. We just like doing it. That's the motto.

FMM: I'm interested too, because you said that you do some work for some other bands too. How do you find that? Do you find it's easier to write for other people or to write for the Money War? How do you stand when it comes to working for others versus your own project?

Dylan: Yeah, I feel like it's like a different role, maybe. Like, when I'm writing with other people, they're the artists, so they're the person that's living in this la la land trying to pluck an idea from the universe, and I'm the person that's trying to keep it on track and try and turn it into something.

I feel like I forget which way, which side of the brain does what, but I feel like it's not a bad analogy for, like, I'm one part of the brain. I'm, like, the editor. I'm the person that's, like, more cerebral when I'm working with other people, and I live more in this world. Then, when it's The Money War, where it's like, I have to switch gears a little bit and just kind of muck around with stuff that could be nothing for ages. And then there might be one idea that's cool and pluck that they're both valuable to me when I do too much of the other one, where it's, like, very brainy and kind of, I guess, rational and logical.

I feel like I need more true creativity and that's kind of the mode that's usually when the Money War kind of emerges with new songs. It's like, kind of done too much of that, so it's like, let's do something that's the opposite and vice versa. Living in the artist mode feels like it doesn't have any structure, like it's all free-flowing or something like that.

It's nice to produce for other people where you feel like, there's all right, at the end of today, we're going to get a song and we're going to finish one. Even, like, when it's yourself. It's easy to just float around in No Man’s Land.

FMM: Yeah, that makes complete sense as well.

Dylan: Yeah, I'm glad it makes sense.

FMM: You've got that balance. It sounds like you're spreading yourself into different areas. You're not like focusing solely on The Money War or focusing solely on other people's projects. You've got that balance that works for you and your life.

Dylan: Yeah, cool. I like doing both. I know some people like specialising in one thing, but I feel like doing both of that. It kind of gives some structure whilst exploring creativity freely at the same time.

FMM: Yeah, and I guess it's always great to have too, because as you would have known yourself from COVID when you can't do live shows and stuff like that, you're still able to work with other people and still be creative without having to rely on having to perform live with your music.

Dylan: Yeah, for sure.

FMM: And you mentioned tours before. Do you guys still perform live or how can people come support you if they like you and what you're putting out there?

Dylan: Yeah, well, we haven't played like, live in quite a while, so we have we now have a two and a half year old and twins as well, so we have three kids, so just logistically it's been impossible.

We were going to do some shows at the end of last year and it was just too hard to even rehearse and stuff. So there's no real plan to play live for the next little bit. I'm sure we will at some point. I do miss being on stage and just generally like having that feedback and interaction with an audience and also with the other band members, but yeah, life is tricky that way.

But The Money War started as like a studio project and I'm okay with it being that for as long as it needs to be and then when we feel like it's doable to play live again, we will.

FMM: Exactly, and there's no pressure. As long as you guys are having fun and you're enjoying what goes into the work. I guess quality is always better than quantity and how much you're putting out there.

Dylan: Yeah, for sure. I mean, it feels a little weird to be making music and putting it out and then not like the obvious way to promote music is play live and all that. So we don't have that side to things, but also totally fine with just sharing music and people finding it however they find it.

FMM: Yeah, and I guess that's a great thing in this day and age too. People put their music on TikTok, Spotify. You don't always have to rely on people coming to your shows. People can still enjoy the music without physically having to go see you guys live if you're not touring or performing.

Dylan: Yeah, exactly.

FMM: What's on your radar for the rest of the year? Are you guys doing some more writing or you guys taking a break or like, what's 2023 look like for you?

Dylan: Yeah, so we've got an EP we're working on. Should definitely, maybe definitely come out this year. And that's the main focus for The Money War. Always kind of working on other collaborations as well, but yeah, EP for The Money War. We've done two full length albums. I'm intrigued. What's your opinion about EP versus album versus singles? Do you listen to albums still?

FMM: I still do, yeah. Especially now I've seen a few more people do, like, interludes in between songs and albums now, so when I see that, it makes me listen to the whole album in order when it follows through. But I guess from my friends who don't do that, I think they prefer EPs because they just add it to their playlist, put it on shuffle, like it goes with all their other music. I guess it's changed a bit in the days of people listening to a full album where people just shuffle it now or pick certain songs, but I personally prefer to listen to things in order if a longer piece of work goes out.

Dylan: Yeah, that was the way that I really got into music, was listening to albums and knowing track three was the best and nine was the best, and skipped this one and I loved that.

But yeah, I guess it's super boring to talk about, but from an economical point of view, it probably makes sense for the majority of artists to put up songs at a time because we're in an industry that only really can focus on one song at a time for the most part, which kind of suits us because we've got three kids and it's hard at the minute. We use that as the excuse.

FMM: How do you find that balance? Like having kids but also working with your partner and trying to be creative as well?

Dylan: Yeah, it's really hard. Yeah. Not going to lie. When we started The Money War, we didn't have kids and that was a lot easier because it was just like, hey, what do you think of this? Let's record it, see what happens. Now, it has to be very structured and kind of booking times to do things.

FMM: We just have to train the kids up, get them in the band so they can contribute. They’ve got musical parents, right? Surely it's in their blood somewhere.

Dylan: Yeah. Actually the reason we had kids was just so we didn't have to pay other musicians.

FMM: Exactly. Get a drummer in, get a guitarist.

Dylan: That's it, and they will be grounded until they can play all their instruments. [laughs].

FMM: Was there anything else you want to add about the release or about your project that we haven't covered?

Dylan: I don't think so. I think, yeah, check out our social media and stuff and Spotify and follow us on there if you want to keep up to date with what we're up to.

I just want to give another shout out to James, who is FEELDS, who's the other artists that we collaborated with on Was It Ever Really Anything? Who co wrote the track and co produced it, and I think the flavour of the two, Carmen and myself, and James, is, like, a pretty cool combination.

FMM: Yeah, I think all the flavours work together really well. And even knowing before, when you said originally that with Carmen, that vocal originally wasn't meant to be on there, and then she added that in, that's all going together really nice as well.

Dylan: Yeah, I'm glad that it feels seamless. It felt like that making it, which is great that it comes across like that.

FMM: It's great that it felt like that while making it, too, because sometimes the final product can sound seamless, but then, obviously, for the people that put in the hard work, it can be a long process on your end, for the people actually making it.

Dylan: It pretty much is always like that. For us, it's a long period of, like, trying to maybe now, because we have less time to dwell on it, there's not really enough time to overthink it. It's kind of just, like, distinctual decisions, but yeah, glad you like the song. That's cool.

FMM: Yeah. Cool. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. It was nice to hear more about the release and about The Money War as well, so thank you so much.

Dylan: Thanks for having me.

FMM: I look forward to what you guys do next.